'80s Movie Montage

Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back

• Anna Keizer & Derek Dehanke • Season 4 • Episode 23

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With special -- and returning! -- guest Krishna Smitha, Anna and Derek debate if Lucas knew Luke and Leia would be siblings before their kiss, the moral ambiguity of training Luke to eventually kill his own father and much more during their discussion of the iconic flick Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980).

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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

Krishna Smitha is an actress-producer based in Los Angeles working in television, film and theatre. Most recently she can be seen guest starring on NCIS:LA, Platonic, and The Afterparty. She is a company member at the Road Theatre where she helps produce the Summer Playwrights Festival. Krishna loves creating all sorts of stuff with other artists, whether it be films, theatre, or podcasts! www.KrishnaSmitha.com

We'd love to hear from you! Send us a text message.

SPEAKER_03:

the

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force is with you young skywalker but you are not a jedi yet

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hello and welcome to 80s movie montage this is derrick

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and this is anna

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And he wasn't a Jedi yet, was he? I mean, he learned quite a bit.

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I mean, it's hard. Gosh, I'm already going outside of these first three films that came our way. But when you look at what the prequel set up as actual Jedi training, he kind of got shortchanged. Big time. Yeah. I mean, although I guess he got to train directly with Yoda. And that's what

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allowed the Empire to strike back. In this week's movie, the Empire strikes back. Which,

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happy 100th episode. It

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seems like we have been doing this for 15 years. Hey! In all the best ways.

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Okay.

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So I'm only surprised that it's only 100. I thought this at this point would have been like...

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Well, we only do an episode every other week. Do we? Yes.

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Do we

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really? Yes. All

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right. I have a call to action. I need some confirmation on this. I don't know if that checks out.

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Yeah, I'm so excited. It's our 100th episode and We've been

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holding onto this

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movie for a while.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So Empire Strikes Back, a multi-nominated, Oscar-nominated film, and it did actually win an Oscar. I'm going to just mention all the different nominations and the win because these are categories we don't typically cover. There's one that we do, but it was nominated for Best Art Direction Set Decoration. Okay. Makes a lot of sense.

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Snow was impeccable.

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It was also nominated, now this is a category that we do typically cover we will certainly get to this gentleman it was nominated for best original score

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it is the best soundtrack to any star wars movie and it is one of the best soundtracks of all time

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i have a feeling i'll get to my little theory about why williams did not win for this i mean spoiler he won for a new hope so that's i think why they're like we're not going to give it to you again for another star wars movie

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i mean the the tragedy there is that This soundtrack, other than Binary Sunset, is really good. I guess because it was all new, but Empire's soundtrack is just really,

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really good. But you don't have an Empire soundtrack without the foundation of the original Star Wars score.

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That's true. Do you have the Imperial March in A New Hope?

UNKNOWN:

No.

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Yeah.

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Do you?

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Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, so it was nominated for Best Original Score. It won for Best Sound, so that checks out, I think. And then it also, the film received a special achievement award, so a non-competitive Oscar.

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Well, I guess they made it competitive then by winning it against other-

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It was bestowed upon them. Oh,

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okay.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

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so all right um and yeah i mean what's funny about this is i'm sure everybody realizes at this point we are not starting with the first star wars film to come out because we

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can't

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a new hope came out in 77 yeah this

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one's

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just under the gun so this one's 80 but this is the first of the star wars films that we can cover and arguably a lot of people i do think consider empire their favorite of the star wars films

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i mean with good reason it is the best

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okay Well, as far as written by credits go, now, I will get to him in just a second. Obviously, everybody associates Star Wars with George Lucas for good reason. I'm going to put a pin in his credit and start with the two credited screenwriters. So the first, it's a really interesting backstory on this particular screenwriter. So Lee Brackett, Lee is a woman. Okay. What's funny about Lee is that a lot of people didn't realize that she was a woman for quite a while because she arguably has a quote man's name. Oh it's like it's

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unisex.

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It is unisex. Yeah. Yeah. But a lot of people just assumed because she was a really successful writer that she was a he. Now Lee although she does have several screenwriting credits she made her name on like short stories and novels and actually she had the nickname of Queen of the soap opera. I'm sorry, space opera.

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Oh, okay. That's very different.

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Yeah. But if you look at her screenwriting credits, she also very much had influence in the Western world. And like kind of hard-boiled type stories. So she was accredited screenwriter on The Big Sleep.

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Okay.

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She was brought in to help on Rio Bravo. So she has that credit. Hattari?

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Exclamation mark. I don't know what that one I

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don't know the film, but she also has screenwriting credits for El Dorado and Rio Lobo. So she has all these kind of Western credits. They

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all sound incredibly Western-ish.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

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And The Long Goodbye. So here's what's interesting is that now I just said that Empire, obviously films are made prior to the year they come out. So production was very much in swing on Empire during the 70s. She passed away in 70s. Oh. Oh. That's

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not a bad

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first writing credit. Okay. That's probably gracious of him. Yeah, very much so. As far as Kasdan is concerned, I mean, like I said, a really successful screenwriter in his own right. I mean, the fact that this is his first credit is kind of insane. He went on to do just a ton of amazing films. So he's also the screenwriter on Raiders. Jesus Christ. Yeah. I mean, okay. So he has a credit for that. Body Heat. He comes back for Return of the Jedi. Hmm. So he does that. And so he is Oscar nominated. He has not won as of yet, but he has a Best Original Screenplay nomination for The Big Chill. He has a Best Adapted Screenplay Oscar nomination for The Accidental Tourist. He also must have been a producer on that film because he has a Best Pitcher Oscar nomination also for The Accidental Tourist. And he also has a Best Original Screenplay Oscar nomination for Grand Canyon. A couple of his other credits include the bodyguard Wyatt Earp and he comes back to Star Wars he's um one of the I don't know if he's the only screenwriter but he is a credited screenwriter for Solo a Star Wars story

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I feel bad for that movie it got it

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unfairly yeah thrown under it

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it got thrown under and it didn't get the like positive attention that I think it deserved because it was like legitimately a good movie you know they just they like threw everything

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out

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against the wall all once and they kind of still are and by they i mean disney

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i was thinking about this as i was putting my notes together i think that and i'm among those people who has a little bit of star wars burnout yeah but i think that if we i guess depending depending on what else goes into the production pipeline if they kind of pump the brakes a little bit on star wars 20 30 years from now when a new generation of star wars fans are coming up they're going to probably be just in heaven to have so many properties because we grew up without that we had the first three films for most of our lives we

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grew up with the first well okay

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if we're talking about like film and television not books not can't like not all the other stuff that well I

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mean like the first three for us were episodes four or five and six and that was like almost a joke when you watching her like oh this is starting at four okay

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yeah because it would

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say like episode four

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it was never like a joke to me I was always just like curious like what does that mean the fact that this starts with episode four

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so the reason that we can basically recite the dialogue word for word as we're watching the movie that's all we had it's all we watch those three movies over and over again and then the build up for the prequels was just insane and then we saw it and we're like let's watch those old ones again

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so in any case that's Kazdin now did mention Lucas he has a story by credit so if you go to Lucas's filmography specifically his writing credits. He has 180, as of right now, 184 writing credits. Overwhelmingly, they are attributed to both Star Wars and the Raiders franchise.

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Because he created those worlds, regardless of how much direct influence he had on a lot of those other subsequent stories. He had created the universe

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that they all stem from. So I'm not going to go over all of those. I tried for the most, like I might bring up the first of the various franchises that he's connected to but i try to just like pick ones that are like varied so um now a lot of people do know this about him i mean he's such a familiar figure people love him or hate him for where the star wars films went for a while because he no longer owns that franchise yeah um you know he did create them but a lot of people know his history and so it all kind of sort of began with this short called now here's the short's name Electronic Labyrinth THX 1138 4EB. Oh my God. That's the short that eventually did become the feature.

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Short film, long title.

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Yeah. And then they just like super cut down the title. So the feature version is just THX 1138. Yeah.

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I think, yeah. I was familiar with that. I knew that was the thing. I didn't realize there was the short with a hilariously long name. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So very early in his career, he does get acclaimed. So he is the writer and director of American Graffiti and he got Oscar nominations for for both of those categories so he did get a Best Original Screenplay as well as Best Director Oscar nomination for that film and then when A New Hope came out same Z's he got another Best Original Screenplay Oscar nomination and another Best Director Oscar nomination so obviously A New Hope kicks off arguably the most extensive and and popular and successful cinematic franchise and universe of all time

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think

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that's fair. is that like Raiders has, I mean, we covered Raiders and it comes up frequently enough for the different people that are attached to it throughout the course of this podcast. Somebody keeps going into IMDb, like they keep changing their mind about how they want to refer to that movie. Because honestly, sometimes it says Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Lost Ark. And sometimes like most recently when I was doing my notes for this, it just says Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's really funny that they keep going back and forth with it.

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Well, yeah. I kind of like just Raiders of the Lost

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World. Oh, totally. Because that's what it originally was called. Because the

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Indiana Jones and is just... It was

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tacked on after the success.

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After it became a franchise. Right.

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He also has writing credits for Willow and Radioland Murders. Before I move away from the written by credits, I just want to... Because... Well, by the time this comes out, we will be past Halloween. However...

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However?

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Little fun fact. So Lee Brackett... Yeah. Do you know another Lee Brackett? No.

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No, I don't. You do. Okay. You do. I knew that would be the answer, but I don't know. The

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sheriff from Halloween.

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Oh. Oh.

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Was named in honor of her.

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That's super cool.

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Yeah. I did not know that. So Carpenter named, Carpenter must have been a fan of her work.

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I had no idea. And my surprise is genuine because I'm not that good of an actor. Isn't that fun though? I couldn't have feigned that surprise.

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Because when I was like seeing the screenplay credits, I was like, wait a minute. a minute that's like that's a little too that's a great catch too much of a coincidence okay so moving on to directed by Irvin Kirshner so I mean I feel like most people so many people even just in passing are kind of Star Wars I don't know if I would say aficionados or experts but like I feel like there's so much osmosis in the general culture even

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the people who are like I've never actually watched a Star Wars but you're aware that it's a

SPEAKER_01:

thing. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if people know, realize that Lucas only directed the first one, so I have no idea if people do realize that it was a different individual who stepped in to direct this one, but I think he did a great job. He did an amazing job, yeah. Not actually a ton of filmography credits to his name. When he

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gave the notes to Hamill and Fisher, no, make the kiss more passionate. I mean, brilliant.

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Don't let anybody know you're brother and sister. Highly successful. Yeah. But among some of those credits, we do have a TV series called The Rebel. I just thought that was fun because like in the film, they're referred to as the rebels. Yeah. Rebel lines. Anyway, a film called, and then the rest I have are films. The Flim Flam Man. Flim Flam Man. Yeah. Thought that was a fun title. I know I've brought this up before because of the stylization of the name Spies, but it's like S asterisk P asterisk Y asterisk S.

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Yeah, there's a lot going on with that. A lot to unfold.

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Never Say Never Again. So he did that.

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Yeah, Sean Connery coming back as James Bond, which he said he would never do.

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Another huge film. And RoboCop 2. Yeah. Well, he's the director of it. All right, moving on to cinematography. Peter Szczeski?

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Is it? That's

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the best I can do. So.

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Peter Krzyzewski.

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Oh, you're doing Krzyzewski?

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Krzyzewski. Okay. Yeah. No, I was thinking it was going to end up being spelled like Mike Krzyzewski, the former Duke basketball coach. But no, it's not. It's a little bit different. So what'd you say again?

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Oh, you're making me say it another. Krzyzewski. Yeah, that's perfect. I think that's right. I think I said a little differently than I thought, but oh well. Okay. So. the DP on this film beautiful job I think the film looks great

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it really does I mean it looks good enough to where and this is kind of true for all of them when they they took like the original VHS versions that we kind of grew up watching and then they added in all the like new CGI yeah it's a little jarring because the practical like the existing effects all worked really well

SPEAKER_01:

and we'll get to because there's a actual couple different credited editors on account of that because of of 1997 special editions. Yeah. But for this, now he already was well into his career before any of the Star Wars films came along. Some of his credits, he has a really interesting filmography. He is not super loyal to any particular genre. He was the DP on the 1968 version of A Midsummer Night's Dream. Okay. I just like the title of this film, Lock Up Your Daughters.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Did not realize that he was also the DP on the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Interesting. Very much so. He did Dead Ringers, Immortal Beloved, Mars Attacks. So he really swings into all different genres. The Man in the Iron Mask.

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He did one that was kind of like a really weird ripoff of Star Wars and kind of like a blend of sci-fi and fantasy in Krull.

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Oh, yeah, I saw. I didn't have that, but I saw

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that. I mean, well, I hope you haven't actually seen it, But if you just saw the title, that's okay.

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I saw it in his credits.

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Perfect. That's the best way to see it, it turns

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out. And he also did A History of Violence and Shop Girl.

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Man, those are good movies.

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Okay. Moving on to a very, very, very familiar name. Although I don't think we've really talked about him a bunch lately. Then

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it's less familiar for me.

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Of course. I am talking about John Williams.

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Oh, yeah. Okay.

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Yes. So, of course, he is... I mean, he is just as, I can't say the word, inextricably

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linked

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to this franchise as is like George Lucas, I would think, or Mark Hamill. Yeah. I mean, come on.

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Yeah. Also, update, the Imperial March first appears in The Empire Strikes Back.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, okay. Well, thank you. A little breaking news. I was waiting until we

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got to Mr. Williams to break that news. I was holding on to that.

SPEAKER_01:

So he's come up several times because we've covered him for Raiders. We've covered him for E.T. Uh-huh. Actually, that's it, I think, so far. Where he won. Yes. So here's the thing with John Williams. He has been nominated 53 times. Jesus Christ. That's amazing. I'm not going through all the nominations, but I will bring up the wins. Okay. So of the 53 nominations, he's won five times, which to me is criminally low. It is. In any case, he did start out with some TV shows. So he did a TV series called Checkmate. He also did Gilligan's Island. Really? Yeah. Did not know that. Me neither. He did. So now the rest of what I have, all films. However, I want to say kind of like Lucas, basically anything that has the Star Wars branding on it, he's a part of. So I am not going to bring up. Well, I mean, maybe some. But for the most part, I'm not going to bring up all the different Star Wars credits that he has. That's fine. And same thing with like the whole Indiana Jones franchise, all of that. But he did the Poseidon Adventure. So he was not the composer on Fiddler on the Roof, but his work on it actually did win him an Oscar. So he won for best scoring adaptation and original song score. Okay. So, but he's not. Not the composer, but that is one of his five Oscar wins. And it's the first one. So here we go. He hooks up with Spielberg for The Sugarland Express. His next Oscar win, best original score for Jaws. Okay. Next Oscar win is best original score for A New Hope. He does Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Superman. He does Raiders. His next Oscar win, best original score for E.T., the extraterrestrial. Some fun ones in here, and not all of them are connected to Spielberg, so he does Space Camp, The Witches of Eastwick, Empire of the Sun. He scored The Accidental Tourist, so the film that casted and had all those awards for him. Born on the Fourth of July. Really

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uplifting movie, that one.

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Presumed Innocent. We love this one, Home Alone. We go to the concert every year. JFK. Here's what's fun. So I put down some of the films. He scored a lot on of presidential films because he's done JFK, Nixon, and Lincoln. Wow. Isn't that fun? Yeah, he's done all three. Far and Away, of course, Jurassic Park. Far and Away what? Jurassic Park. I'm kind of surprised he didn't win for Jurassic Park. That's such a great, great score. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. But maybe, I don't know, was he, I don't know if he was up for both because they came out the same year. He did win for Schindler's List. And like I said, that's the last win that he has had.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, if that came out the same year, then yeah, I guess I can admit

SPEAKER_01:

it. Sabrina, the remake. Like I said, Nixon, Saving Private Ryan, Angela's Ashes. Of course, he's the composer for the original Harry Potter and the Source Although I think they kind of eventually parsed that out to other composers who kind of added and changed what he had created. Oh, really? He might be like, oh, original music by, but he's not like the guy who kept coming back to the franchise. I

SPEAKER_02:

think it's like Hedwig's theme is the song that you hear when the credits open. Got it. When the movie first starts, I think. So yeah, they're like, look, man, you don't need another. You got Star Wars. You got Raiders. It's fine.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

He did a great score for Catch Me If You Can. I love that score. War of the Worlds, as mentioned, Lincoln, and then a lot of thes. The BFG, The Post, The Fablemans.

SPEAKER_02:

I love when he talked about the BFG at one of the concerts and talked about how like, yeah, it didn't do that well, but I like it. Yeah, it's fine.

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We've mentioned before, he's maybe one of the few people on this planet who can kind of talk down to Spielberg.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he was kind of like throwing shit at Spielberg. Yeah, Yeah, that movie didn't do that

SPEAKER_01:

great, but here's a song. So lastly, before we get to the stars of the film, we have film editing. We have several people credited, at least via IMDb. So two uncredited credits, both for George Lucas and his then wife, Marsha Lucas. I'm not going to go through filmographies for that. I'm just going to focus on the original editor of the film, who was Paul Hirsch. And... He also did some amazing films over the course of his career. He started off with Carrie. Oh,

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okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Stephen King. Yeah. Early in his career, he did Carrie. He won a Best Editing Oscar for A New Hope. Okay. So he was part of it for that. He did... And this isn't even the first time we've brought him up because he was the editor on Footloose. That was season three. So go check that one out.

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Still one of our... Popular episodes

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of all time. People love Footloose, maybe because of his great editing.

SPEAKER_02:

Maybe, yeah. Yeah. Call to action. Go listen to that one and tell us what made it so good.

SPEAKER_01:

He also was the editor on Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Okay. So that one was all the way back in season one, if you want to check that one off. We got to do this one at some point. He did Planes, Trains, and Automobiles.

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The movie that wouldn't exist with smartphones.

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So I guess he had a little bit of a relationship with John Hughes. Yeah. He did Steel Magnolias. Now, fast forwarding a bit, he was the editor on the first Mission Impossible movie. Oh, that was a great movie. Yeah.

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All of them were except for two.

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He also did Mighty Joe Young. He gets another Oscar nomination for the movie Ray, Ray Charles. He comes back to the Mission Impossible franchise. He did Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol. That was a good one, yeah. And then more recently, he maybe has a little bit of a relationship with Tom Cruise. He did the 2017 The Mummy.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. And he also did the family comedy from 1993, Falling Down.

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The lighthearted tale. Yeah. So as mentioned, there were special editions trotted out in 97.

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Here's my problem with the special edition is that it's become the only edition you can see.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

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I would like the choice of watching like the classic version. Otherwise, it's just like a new a new edition. It's not special. It's just the only one that you can see.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I agree with you. So the gentleman who did not only the special edition of Empire, but all Also A New Hope and also Return of the Jedi. He did all those special versions. T.M. Christopher. Oh, okay. Also, this is kind of funny because he gets called in to do a lot of these like alt versions. He did the 2002 Director's Cut of Amadeus.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

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So he did that one as well. He did the TV series, The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones. And then more recently, this is an animated like kids series, TV series, Go Go Corey Carson.

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Interesting.

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Okay.

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Not familiar with that. Me

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neither. But on to the stars of our film, starting with Mark Hamill, Luke Skywalker, who is not a Jedi yet. He's learned a

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lot,

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though. He's learned a lot. Yeah. To control his fear and anger.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Obi-Wan has taught him well, apparently. We hear that several times.

SPEAKER_01:

So what's interesting about Mark Hamill, I think I would be hard-pressed to find somebody who doesn't immediately think Luke Skywalker when they hear Mark Hamill.

SPEAKER_02:

That's tough. I mean, some people might think the Joker.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's what I was going to say, is that possibly, I think that's a distant second if that's going to be the case.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a distant second, but it's the closest thing you're going to get to Luke, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

But if you go to his IMDb, 367 acting credits. He has done a lot. A ton of voice work. So much so that it got me thinking, not because of any... in my eyes, hierarchy between on-camera acting versus voice acting. But I think the fact that voice acting has become such a common avenue for actors to take that it should have its own category, I think, on IMDb. I think that there should be separation between on-camera acting credits and voice acting credits just so you can see more clearly the variety of work.

SPEAKER_02:

Because all we get is a little parenthetical voice.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But

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they're all interspersed with with live action animated

SPEAKER_01:

I think that could be helpful yeah and if you go to his filmography holy cow it's overwhelming the voice voice work that he's done yeah it's ton I mean early in his career a lot of TV work A New Hope was was I think undeniably his big break like that's what he was already working however if Star Wars hadn't come along who knows where his career would have gone

SPEAKER_03:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

and And probably for a while, you know, it was kind of a love hate thing, maybe because it's like he was so well known as Luke Skywalker, that if you look at his other 1980s work, not a ton outside of Star Wars. Of course, he comes back for, obviously, Empire, Return of the Jedi. Oh, I thought you were

SPEAKER_02:

gonna say the holiday special.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I added that for him. And like, pretty much like everybody else who's part of the original films was all He also had some screen time for the holiday special, but I wasn't going to call it out for everybody. Now, notably, he does a film, I think it's in between Empire and Return of the Jedi, called The Night the Lights Went Out in Georgia. It's with Christy McNichol. Okay. And I want to say Dennis Quaid. So he is in that. But then, yes, he pivots into a hugely popular career. And not to say he doesn't do on-screen acting work during this time, but he does. He starts with Batman Mask of the Phantasm. So it was an animated film. Okay. And then he comes back for Batman, the animated series. And to your point, he plays the Joker. And he comes back for different Batman properties. I'm not going to name all of them. I was trying to just pull out.

SPEAKER_02:

There's a lot of different animated Batman series.

SPEAKER_01:

There's so much. So, so, so much. I just tried to call out a couple other TV series. that he also did voice work for among them phantom 2040 bruno the kid the new woody wedpacker show metal lock oh my goodness meta metalocalypse thank you yeah yes um and now we're kind of the pendulum is kind of swinging back in terms of and again this is not to say he has stopped doing voice voice work hardly but he comes back to uh being known for kind of more on-camera work. He had a really notable cameo in the first Kingsman movie.

SPEAKER_02:

He

SPEAKER_01:

did, yeah. Professor Arnold. Then, of course, he reprises his role as Luke for The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, and The Rise of Skywalker.

SPEAKER_02:

The Force Awakens, I don't think he had a single line, did he? He just had a very brooding stare.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

he talks! Not in The Force Awakens.

SPEAKER_01:

He didn't talk at all?

SPEAKER_02:

No. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

just because when Rey gives him the lights. Okay,

SPEAKER_02:

that's fair. He has a lot to say than other ones,

SPEAKER_01:

though. In between Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker, he is the new voice of Chucky in the reboot of the Child's Play movie. He also had a really fun cameo on the TV show What We Do in the Shadows.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I think he's like Bob the Vampire or something like that, like something really just boring. He also did make appearances in The Man Mandalorian and the book of Boba Fett and now like I think like literally right now he is in the new Mike Flanagan series The Fall of the House of Usher

SPEAKER_02:

yes yeah I heard about that and he was also in the Flash the TV series both of them because there was like an

SPEAKER_01:

older interesting

SPEAKER_02:

older Flash series and then the more current one and he was the same character the trickster in both of them

SPEAKER_01:

oh very interesting okay

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

Moving on to Han Solo. Harrison Ford. We've talked about him a lot. We have. But that doesn't mean we can't keep talking about him because he's amazing. We love him. You can't stop us. Can't stop. Can't stop. Won't stop. So, I mean, he's had just a crazy amount of success. I mean, one of the biggest movie stars of all time. He is currently 81. So he's had, and it's amazing the career that he's had because he kind of started a little bit later than a lot

SPEAKER_02:

of people. It's interesting that he, of like anyone I can think of from the Star Wars franchise, like, although he is Han Solo, he is also Indiana Jones. And he is also like Jack Ryan in those Tom Clancy movies. Like he did not go the same route that Hamill did. He just was like, you know what? I'm just going to do, I'll be your favorite character in every movie.

SPEAKER_01:

He very successfully was able to, not distance himself, but to successfully do other roles without being pigeonholed.

SPEAKER_02:

And very different roles. I mean, very different types of characters in very different types of movies.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. So let's go through some of them. He was in American Graffiti. So that's where he first collaborated with Lucas. He has a small part in a film that is just so tremendous the conversation he's in that of course he's in A New Hope Apocalypse Now he has a small bit part in he is obviously Indiana Jones in the entire franchise so that kicks off with Raiders

SPEAKER_02:

that should be their new title obviously Indiana Jones

SPEAKER_01:

Blade Runner he comes back for Return of the Jedi I mean all the film like there's like the young Indiana Jones indiana jones where they do obviously recasting but he's he is indie for all the films so temple of doom he gets his one and only oscar nomination for the film witness okay he does the mosquito coast but yeah he does a lot of serious turns um he does the mosquito coast he also can do comedy he's in working girl goes back and we saw this not too long ago presumed innocent

SPEAKER_02:

yeah i'm honestly surprised he didn't get a nomination for that

SPEAKER_01:

yeah uh to your point he is jack ryan a few times over for Patriot Games Clear and Present Danger I love him in The Fugitive so so Richard Kimball he's so good in that The One-Armed Man did it I know it sounds kind of silly when you say it that way but they did he was in the reboot of Sabrina and although I love him just go see the original don't don't bother with the reboot sorry okay the original you can't beat Audrey Hepburn and Humphrey Bogart that's tough like yeah

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, look, it's Harrison Ford, but still.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean.

SPEAKER_01:

Just watch the original. It's great. Air Force One. Get

SPEAKER_02:

off my plane.

SPEAKER_01:

Six Days, Seven Nights. So then he, I mean, not everything's like a huge, huge box office success, but he does Six Days, Seven Nights, What Lies Beneath. And then, you know, after a huge break, Last Crusade was 89. But then he comes back for Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull he does Ender's Game then also comes back to do The Force Awakens he also comes back to do Blade Runner 2049 he I think from what I've read the unexpected passing of Carrie Fisher is what convinced him to come back for Rise of Skywalker and he wasn't going to he

SPEAKER_02:

came back as like a like a force

SPEAKER_01:

ghost kind of thing yeah yeah um you know i was devastated that he died in the force awakens but that's what he wanted yeah he was like i will come back but you got to kill me off

SPEAKER_02:

nobody liked that

SPEAKER_01:

uh nobody liked that but he he does have you know understanding of like that's too much for fans i think to not have Leia or Han and she was supposed to carry on in a like more mainstream plot line I think with the final film and that just couldn't happen I

SPEAKER_02:

think the most ambitious thing about that statement is that they had plot lines oh okay

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not taking it back okay so he did come back sorry I don't mean to belabor this point but so he comes back for Rise of Skywalker he does Call of the Wild more recently he's come to television so he was on 1923 I'm not sure if they're

SPEAKER_02:

it's a it's like a Yellowstone prequel yeah right

SPEAKER_01:

Taylor the whole Taylor Sheridan universe so he's in that he's also and I really want to watch this with Jason Segel I believe shrinking oh yeah I've heard that's fantastic and then this summer Indiana Jones returned once more for the Dial of Destiny

SPEAKER_02:

which we have not seen

SPEAKER_01:

no we got to get to that so alright All right. So just mentioned her Carrie Fisher. As of this film, her title is still Princess Leia, not General Organa. But she it's crazy to think that she's already been gone as long as she has. She passed away in 2016. And unfortunately, for the rest of the people I'm going to bring up, most of them have passed. She had an incredible career, I think. And I don't know, honestly, if I brought this up in previous episodes, because she did come up even just most recently last year. year when we brought up um the burbs

SPEAKER_02:

yeah and then when harry met sally and of course yeah the blues brothers

SPEAKER_01:

yeah so she's come up several times um i don't know if people realize like what an accomplished screenwriter she was she was a very successful and in-demand script doctor she cleaned up a lot of what other screenwriters did okay so but as far as her acting career goes so early in her career she was in the film shampoo i mean she was so young when she started in the Star Wars movies like she was like I think 20 maybe when she did A New Hope so she's obviously in A New Hope to your point she was in the Blues Brothers definitely encourage you to go check that episode out she comes back for Return of the Jedi she does I mean she had a really fantastic 80s she does The Man with One Red Shoe Hannah and Her Sisters to your point when Harry met Sally So please go check that out as well. Drop Dead Fred. Oh, really? Okay. She's in that. Soap Dish. I mean, I think this is the part. So Soap Dish was early 90s. I think this is maybe when she pivots a little bit more into writing. She doesn't have as many acting credits. She does have a role in Scream 3. She does have a small bit in Charlie's Angels Full Throttle. Then she comes back full force. Sorry, that was a weird choice of words. But she does come back for The Force Awakens. That was amazing.

SPEAKER_02:

Amazing. Don't apologize for that. She comes back in full force for the

SPEAKER_01:

Force Awakens. I know she's General Organa. So she comes back for that. They did have footage of her to use for The Last Jedi. So she is in The Last Jedi. A couple, like another one of her very final credits was she did some voice work for Family Guy. She does not get, even though I think they also pull like a Force ghost type thing with her if I'm remembering correctly for Rise of Skywalker she doesn't have a credit for Rise of Skywalker I think because it was it was

SPEAKER_03:

oh

SPEAKER_01:

it was AI okay so um yeah so Carrie Fisher forever Princess Leia okay moving on to and he is introduced for the first time in this film Lando Calrissian

SPEAKER_02:

Lando system

SPEAKER_01:

played by Billy Dee Williams you know it never occurred to me that his name is william williams i hate when

SPEAKER_02:

people

SPEAKER_01:

do that to their kids yeah why do people do that he was born and this is what's really funny his name upon being born william december williams wow he was born in april so that's interesting too but he he made all the right moves you know okay my first name is william what what am i going to do with that so he He

SPEAKER_02:

made that movie?

SPEAKER_01:

No. I just meant, sorry, I didn't mean to use that. He made all the right moves? But to be like, okay, what can I do with this name? William December Williams. Oh, I'll be Billy D. Williams.

SPEAKER_02:

Do you think it like went through an evolution of like, I'll be Will D. Williams. And someone's like, you got to change that up.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know. When I was going through his filmography, like they will note if at the time of making a project, they are going by a different name. i don't think i saw it'll just be like

SPEAKER_02:

a parenthetical as yeah right

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah um i don't think i saw anything like that for him but in any case and he he was born in 1937 and he's still working

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

so good on him i

SPEAKER_02:

do feel bad that they made him get up and dance for that

SPEAKER_01:

i know come on he made the choice he did he made the choice but uh for being like already probably 80 ish when he did that not too bad

SPEAKER_02:

he was surprisingly mobile

SPEAKER_01:

yeah not too bad and i think they all knew what what the assignment was for him being on the show

SPEAKER_02:

get a bunch of stormtroopers do a little dance

SPEAKER_01:

number

SPEAKER_02:

vote him off and we'll all move on

SPEAKER_01:

so lots of early tv work um he did have a bit part in the film the out of towners now his big break was the tv movie brian song

SPEAKER_02:

yeah he was gail sayers right yes yeah

SPEAKER_01:

so as i've said many a time i don't typically bring up tv movies but that one was really an outlier that was hugely Yes. I feel bad for him. I don't really understand the circumstances of why he did not get to reprise this role, but he was the original Harvey Dent. He

SPEAKER_02:

was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

In the 1989 Batman. Yep. So he was Harvey Dent there. He does The Ladies' Man, a TV show called 18 Wheels of Justice.

SPEAKER_02:

Holy, that's a lot of justice.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. He's also in the film Undercover Brother. Okay. He does more TV work. He was for a minute on... Just the regular general hospital, but more so general hospital night shift.

SPEAKER_03:

He

SPEAKER_01:

does that. He does a TV show called Diary of a Single Mom. And he, too, comes back for Rise of Skywalker.

SPEAKER_02:

He's in a movie with a title that might be one of my favorite titles in a really long time. Are you ready for it? Sure. 2003's Today Will Be Yesterday Tomorrow. Oh, boy. That's right. It checks out. Terrible. It checks out.

SPEAKER_01:

Terrible! all right moving on to uh do i have all gentlemen like carrie fisher's the only chick yeah um so

SPEAKER_02:

surprisingly few women in this galaxy far far away

SPEAKER_01:

so we are moving on to a couple gentlemen who are very much affiliated with the star wars universe not to say they didn't do other work but mostly known for their contribution to this particular franchise first of all and Anthony Daniels, who plays C-3PO. Okay. So this, or New Hope, I should say, was his very first film role. So very early in his career. They're like,

SPEAKER_02:

we're going to put you in this tin can.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, pretty much. And now, although he here and there has other roles outside of this universe, he might have the record for, because as far as like being literally in every single film, I don't know. if anybody else can lay claim to that

SPEAKER_02:

he's even in Ahsoka like the new series just came out yeah he's everywhere

SPEAKER_01:

but as far as the films the films go he might be the only one of like the main characters who's in every single film because obviously he's in A New Hope he comes back for Return of the Jedi I also have in here there was like the animated Star Wars droids and he gave his voice to that sorry sorry he comes back for the prequels so he is in Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith.

SPEAKER_02:

We see, you know, I think, what is he, like, nine years old before he has his romance with Padme? He's building droids. Little Anakin. Little Annie.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Making

SPEAKER_02:

C-3PO.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

He does more animated work. Like, he did voice work for Star Wars The Clone Wars. So he voices that. And then he comes back for The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, The Rise of Skywalker, as well as he is in Rogue One, A Star Wars Story and Solo, A Star Wars Story. So he might be the only character that covers every film. Every film. Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

Well done.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think that's an amazing title to hold. But then to your point, he has a couple appearances in the more recent TV shows, Obi-Wan Kenobi and

SPEAKER_02:

Ahsoka. I don't think he was in Andor, which makes sense because they kind of kept that

SPEAKER_01:

separate. Yeah. And he's not in The Mandalorian. and he's not in Boba Fett. Okay. Moving on to... Now, we all know that James Earl Jones voices Darth Vader. Today, I'm going to focus on the gentleman who performs Darth Vader. Okay. That is David Prowse.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So, he performs Darth Vader. He is the person who we see on camera under the costume, of course.

SPEAKER_02:

When Jones is saying you don't know the power of the dark side this is the guy that makes that fist

SPEAKER_01:

exactly

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

exactly so he has passed he passed in 2020 um and he was very much a working actor before Star Wars ever came along I added this because he has now the reason why a lot of these actors are so closely affiliated to the Star Wars franchise because they had a certain kind of physicality that really worked for the roles so like Anthony Daniels He's a very slim fellow. He

SPEAKER_02:

must have been,

SPEAKER_01:

yes. And the voice, of course, too. And Prowse was an imposing, physical individual. So outside of Darth Vader, he, a couple times over, has been Frankenstein's monster.

SPEAKER_02:

Really? That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

One of his really early uncredited credits is as Frankenstein's creature in a film called Casino Royale. Not...

SPEAKER_02:

No, it's the one with... Oh, jeez. From the Pink Panther movies and Spectre Clouseau.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, OK. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm blanking in the same too. Wells. Wellers. Sellers. Peter Sellers. Thank you. Thank you. We did it. We did it. So he's in that. He was in a film called Hammerhead. Here we go. The horror of Frankenstein. He is in. He is in A Clockwork Orange. Hmm. Yeah. Also, Frankenstein and the Monster from Hell. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Wait, is it like Frankenstein fights the monster from hell?

SPEAKER_01:

It doesn't say Frankenstein fights the monster from hell. It just says Frankenstein and. Do they team

SPEAKER_02:

up?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

We got to investigate.

SPEAKER_01:

And then, of course, he's in A New Hope. He is in this. And he is in Return of the Jedi. And lots of TV appearances outside of that. All right. Another gentleman super affiliated with this franchise, Peter Mayhew, who plays Chewbacca. He also has passed. He passed away in 2019. His very first credit was A New Hope. Amazing. with the following trilogies. So he is in Revenge of the Sith. So he's in the last of that trilogy. Okay. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And then he's in the first of the most recent trilogy. So he is in The Force Awakens.

SPEAKER_02:

And Solo, right? Did you already say that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, is that in

SPEAKER_02:

there? Was he not in there?

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't see it. Oh. Yeah. And then most recently before he passed, he was in a film called Killer Ink. Are you checking it out?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, I didn't know if it was like killer comma I-N-C.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I'm sorry, I-N-K.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's like actual ink. Like pen ink. Yeah, killer ink though.

SPEAKER_01:

Moving on to R2-D2, Kenny Baker. So very similar. Now, because of his physicality, he was able to pivot out a little bit more easily than I think the other two gentlemen we've covered because he, you know, did things like Flash Gordon and Time Bandits and that sort of thing, but he still is very much affiliated with most of the Star Wars films. Okay. He also has passed. He passed in 2016, but he was in A New Hope. Already mentioned throughout the course of the 80s, he was early 80s. He was in Flash Gordon, Time Bandits. He also comes back for Return of the Jedi. He is in Amadeus, like bit parts, not...

SPEAKER_02:

He was not Amadeus.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right. He was in Labyrinth.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I don't think we covered him, though, because, again, not a central role. He

SPEAKER_02:

was in it, though.

SPEAKER_01:

But he was in it. Okay. He comes back for The Phantom Menace, as well as Attack of the Clones, as well as Revenge of the Sith.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. So he's maybe second after 3PO? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

As far as, well...

SPEAKER_02:

I was thinking of, like, the overall universe.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, because he's in six of the, what, 11 films? Hmm. Okay. So maybe. All right. So moving on to the one voice actor that I'm going to bring up, although we're not covering, we we've done a lot of James Earl Jones. Um, but I am going to cover the voice of Yoda because Yoda is introduced in this film. So Frank Oz, we have talked about him kind of a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Surprisingly. Um, yeah, he has come up a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

He's come up a lot. Uh, he also was in Labyrinth although Labyrinth was kind of an interesting episode for us because there were so many people between the people like moving and manipulating the creatures

SPEAKER_02:

puppeteers and voices

SPEAKER_01:

yeah so I kind of like steamrolled through all those credits pretty quickly so outside of Labyrinth it was necessary yeah it has been a minute since we've talked about him but I mean he's he's done so much he's done so much I think most people do know him for his voice work, although he does do on-camera acting work. He

SPEAKER_02:

sure does.

SPEAKER_01:

Blues Brothers, right? They're usually like, yeah, like really fun cameos. Yeah. But I'm going to quickly knock out some of his credits. Knock them out. So really early in his career, he was on the TV series The Jimmy...

SPEAKER_02:

The

SPEAKER_01:

what? I know. I can't use my words. The Jimmy Dean Show. So he was Ralph's assistant. Hmm. So... I think that's getting us closer to Muppets. He was on the TV series Our Place as Cookie Monster. Okay. Now, he has been on the TV series Saturday Night Live, SNL.

SPEAKER_02:

For Muppet stuff or just?

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't go down that rabbit hole. That's okay. But then, yes. Now we get to the Muppets where he is very well known as different voices. So he is voiced for the Muppet movie, Miss Piggy. Fozzie. Waka Waka. Animal. And Sam the Eagle. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's done all of those. To your point, he has a really fun cameo right at the beginning of the Blues Brothers. Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

He's like the warden or like a guard or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

So he's done that. He comes back for the Muppet Show. He also does the Great Muppet Caper. Last year during our Halloween series when we covered, it's such a weird thing for him be in but he is in an American werewolf in London in two different capacities so

SPEAKER_02:

it's so weird

SPEAKER_01:

it's it's a really interesting cameo but he plays a character called Mr. Collins who is

SPEAKER_02:

like from the embassy or something

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and he's like so it's like he maybe is suspicious of David he's so

SPEAKER_02:

antagonistic

SPEAKER_01:

he has no sympathy whatsoever yeah he's just gone through this really traumatic horrific encounter and But

SPEAKER_02:

best case scenario is he was attacked by like an insane person who killed his friend.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Through no fault of their own.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Other than they didn't stay to stick to the road.

SPEAKER_02:

Worst case is he is now going to become a werewolf. But either way, he deserves a little

SPEAKER_01:

sympathy. Mr. Collins is not like having it at all. No. So he plays that character. But then also during one of David's nightmares.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, they are.

SPEAKER_01:

When he's at home and his two younger siblings are watching TV, they're watching the muppets okay so then frank oz is the voice of miss piggy it's so random okay to have both credits but there you have it he also comes back for return return the jedi as yoda of course he also has a cameo in trading places we've covered that one so we encourage you to go back to that episode he has some deleted scenes in superman 3 so he would have been a brain surgeon

SPEAKER_02:

man superman 3 is just a wild ride it's got one of the most horrifying scenes in any superman superman movie it does yeah

SPEAKER_01:

uh he's in muppets take manhattan he also does spies like us i already mentioned oh

SPEAKER_02:

yeah he was like the uh test administrator in spies like us i think

SPEAKER_01:

that is a film i have not seen in a very very long time

SPEAKER_02:

well

SPEAKER_01:

he does we got lots more muppet uh credits the muppet christmas carol muppet treasure island he does come back for blues brothers 2000 that's where he's

SPEAKER_02:

the

SPEAKER_01:

warden yeah he comes back again as Yoda, of course, for The Phantom Menace. He does Muppets from Space, a different animated show, Monsters, Inc. He does, I shouldn't say show, film. He comes back for Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith. He also, and this is, the reason why this is kind of ordered this way is just the way that IMDb does it. If you have like a extended stint on a particular show over the course of its storied career or storied Existence, I should say. Sesame Street. So he's voiced on Sesame Street for a very long time. He's done Bert. He's done Grover. I already mentioned Cookie Monster.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So even though he began that in 1969, it ran through

SPEAKER_01:

2014. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. He comes back for The Last Jedi. And then in between Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker, in which he also voices Yoda, he did Knives Out. I

SPEAKER_02:

enjoyed... his um appearances in the sequel trilogy as much as anything in that entire trilogy yeah like you know he was that that character was like very much needed yes you know

SPEAKER_01:

yes i agree with you okay finally uh he has an interesting way of being in the film obi-wan kenobi i'm talking about alec genis so and he also has passed he he's passed now more than 20 years ago he passed away in 2000 um he is a force ghost that's that's how we see him in this film he is kind of killed by darth vader but it's like he kind of disappears from his robe even before vader i think swoops through with the lightsaber but he

SPEAKER_02:

yeah he he very much intentionally allowed that to happen

SPEAKER_01:

yes

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah he knew he knew what he was doing like you vader you didn't beat him right right I think it's funny the way Vader kind of steps on his robe like, you in there? Take that. Sorry, that's a new hope, not to confuse the films. But he does obviously shoot footage to be able to be this Force ghost and still communicate with Luke. So he is credited in this film. And, I mean, my goodness, I think most of us know the stories about how he felt about his participation in the Star Wars franchise.

SPEAKER_02:

My only question for... Like, it's fine if that wasn't, like, his cup of tea. Like, why even, like, why say that? Why

SPEAKER_01:

bash it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, just

SPEAKER_01:

be

SPEAKER_02:

cool with

SPEAKER_01:

it. Because these actors, you know, he was an Oscar-winning actor. Probably thought he was above it, but he wasn't above the money. I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, maybe he was, but, you know, don't tell me that.

SPEAKER_01:

I

SPEAKER_02:

know.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. But, yes, he had a very, very popular and successful career. Whoa, before Star Wars ever came

SPEAKER_02:

along. That's why he was cast in A New Hope to like lend that. Some legitimacy. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

One of his earliest credits, the 1946 version of Great Expectations. Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

that's a great version of it.

SPEAKER_01:

He gets his first Oscar nomination best actor for The Lavender Hill Mob. He was in, oh, I didn't put down the year, but like the earlier version of Lady Killers, the one that Tom Hanks was also part of. Well, well, well. down the road. Yeah. They've done different versions of the film. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah, so he's in one of the earlier versions. He gets a Best Actor Oscar win for Bridge on the River Kwai, which also won Best Picture. Yeah. He gets... Now, this is so interesting. He is in this movie as an actor, but he has a Best Adapted Screenplay Oscar nomination. Interesting. For a film called The Horse's Mouth. All right. Don't know it, but apparently he worked... And this is why maybe... felt like he was a little bit better than Star Wars because like he was on Bridget on the River Kwai he was in Lawrence of Arabia he was in Dr. Zhivago so he's in all these huge films

SPEAKER_02:

I mean the thing that like makes me laugh a little bit about like his his perspective on it is that that like a totally valid way of looking at it because look at how freaking ridiculous this this movie is with this fucking Wookiee like what is this walking carpet thing what is what is this all about but now decades later you have like legitimate actors who are like asking to just have any small tiny little bit role just that they can say they were part of this universe that he helped create so uh james bond he was a stormtrooper daniel craig yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah wasn't never even seen on

SPEAKER_02:

camera so many of them i mean so many impressive actors jack black was on an episode of something i don't know he was

SPEAKER_01:

oh not okay

SPEAKER_02:

oh

SPEAKER_01:

okay a lot of people want to be on it okay So he, you know, starts off in A New Hope. He actually got a Best Supporting Actor nomination for that. Yeah. I didn't realize that this was a thing before the film version came out a couple years ago. He was on the TV miniseries Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. Oh, I didn't know that either. Yeah. He, you know, again, is a force ghost in Return of the Jedi. And then his last Oscar nom was Best Supporting Actor for a film called Little Dorrit. All right. Film synopsis.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, what do we got?

SPEAKER_01:

After the rebels are overpowered by the Empire, Luke Skywalker begins his Jedi training with Yoda, while his friends are pursued across the galaxy by Darth Vader and bounty hunter Boba Fett. I feel like that part was added on later.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Because everybody would be like, who the fuck is Boba Fett?

SPEAKER_02:

At the time that The Empire Strikes Back came out, Boba Fett was just another guy in the movie and then he looks so goddamn cool that by the time we get to um return of the jedi he he's in it but he kind of goes out like a total punk with a half blind solo just like yeah you know so it's really interesting how we got from like the version of boba fett that was in empire to like its own standalone series it's very very interesting

SPEAKER_01:

and And on that note, let's get into it with our amazing returning guest, Krishna. Let's do it. All right. I'm already laughing because I'm just so happy and over the moon to have this amazing returning guest back on the show. She was with us, holy cow, all the way back in season one. So that was already three years ago where we covered romancing the stone with her. And we highly encourage everybody to go back to that episode to hear her thoughts on that film.

SPEAKER_02:

Another movie with great music. It's true. I mean, sure. Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if I'd ever pull up romancing the stone against Empire, but sure, maybe. But today we have back on the show, film, television and theater actress and producer, Krishna Smitha. She was most recently, and we saw this, it was so good. She was in the play, Scintilla, at the Road Theatre Company, which is in LA. And I just want to say, we've seen a couple shows now at the Road. It is a wonderful theater. It really is. It's a tremendous theater. If you're local to the area, you're passing through LA, please support this theater. Please just support theater in general. But she's been in several plays there now, and we're just so honored and happy that we get to see her do her thing on stage. She also, at the Road, produced, just this past summer, the Summer Playwrights Festival And among her TV credits, which there are a lot, we have Silicon Valley, Platonic, NCIS Los Angeles. You can find her in a ton of different shows. And we are just so happy to have her back here. Welcome.

SPEAKER_04:

Thank you. I'm so excited to be back. I had so much fun the first time back

SPEAKER_01:

in 2020. I know, 2020. It seems like 10 years ago in a weird way and also last month. It does.

UNKNOWN:

Truly.

SPEAKER_01:

but this time around so I think Derek is this only the second time we've been able to watch the film with our guest I think so yeah

SPEAKER_02:

so it's this and Grease 2

SPEAKER_01:

and Grease 2 save it for the

SPEAKER_02:

classics

SPEAKER_01:

but that is what made for the sequels if you will yes actually that's a great way of looking at it yeah and we it was so much fun we had like a little bit of a mini marathon because we preceded Empire with new hope, just so that we could, you know. For

SPEAKER_02:

continuity.

SPEAKER_01:

Continuity's sake. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Who is

SPEAKER_02:

this Luke Skywalker?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We

SPEAKER_02:

need an intro. Nepo

SPEAKER_00:

baby.

SPEAKER_02:

Sorry. Forced

SPEAKER_00:

Nepo baby.

SPEAKER_01:

Forced

SPEAKER_00:

Nepo baby.

SPEAKER_01:

But, okay, so I'm going to jump in, and I know it's been a while since you've been on the show, Krishna, but the only question I really ever have for our guest to kick things off is if you happen to have any first memories or impressions of having seen this movie and what your initial reaction might have been to it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, I absolutely do. First of all, I do want to say this is my favorite movie of all time. So it is really, really special that you guys asked me to do this one or more so that I forced you to let me do this one. Not in the slightest. I love this movie so much and I didn't watch it for the first time. first time until I was 15 years old, which is crazy. It was not like a young, it was a little kid watching it. I, it was along the, it was around the, I'm going to date myself here. It was around the time when the new episodes were coming out. And so there were all these billboards, you know, with just like Darth Vader's helmet or with just Yoda's face. Like, and I didn't understand what these billboards were. And my friend, my best friend in high school was like, wait, you've never seen Star Wars. Those are Star Wars billboards. I was like, no, I've never seen it. And so she was like, okay, well let's watch it. And, um, and she was like, I can't describe it. I have to watch, we have to watch it. And so we rented the first movie from blockbuster.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I loved it so much. We immediately, it was like, we, we immediately had to go back to blockbuster. I think we watched it. Like we were watching like at seven and then like, it was like nine and block And so we immediately went back and got the other two movies to watch all of them in a row because I just became obsessed with it. I loved every character. I loved the– I don't know. I couldn't tell you the specific what, but I just immediately– it was so immediate. And then my– like many teenagers, all of a sudden my personality became– Star Wars, like, for the next few years. It's, like, all I could, like, I don't know. I don't know what it was. It was something about the mythology of it, the force of it, the story of it, the Harrison Ford of it. And then Harrison Ford became my first, like, really big crush. Like, I had crushes, like, before that, but Harrison Ford was my first serious crush when I was 15

SPEAKER_01:

years old. I mean, it's not a bad one to kick things off with. Yeah. He's pretty

SPEAKER_02:

dreamy.

SPEAKER_01:

He's pretty dreamy. Yeah. He is Han Solo, man. I think that's so interesting because, I mean, if I'm being really honest, I don't– we were talking about this when we were watching the first two films of just like certain impressions that I had from childhood of like scenes that I just remember. But as a whole, I don't– I couldn't pinpoint how I first saw these movies when I– I know I was a child very young. But I don't know the specific circumstances of how I came to see these movies. So that's what makes your story fascinating to me. Because not only do you have really clear memories of it, but to have seen it essentially like as a full marathon, like back to back to back, that's super interesting and rare, I think. Because maybe either, I don't know, I guess I can't speak for everybody,

SPEAKER_02:

but like- it's not even like really the act of seeing it for the first time. But I remember cause I was just a little kid when I, when it first came out and I think it may have been one of the first movies my parents like took me to a movie theater for. I didn't understand at that time, the concept of like all these sequels or a franchise. So I just thought that was it. I thought that was the end of the story. I'm like, man, they kind of got their asses kicked. I'm glad, you know, I guess it's a

SPEAKER_01:

tragedy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But I also remember thinking like, that's kind of awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Like, cause it was, it was really like, uh, just different and new and refreshing to see a story like that, like a fantasy sci-fi space opera movie where, you know, just everything didn't really work out for them. You know, you got to wait until the Ewoks for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, so I'm curious, Christian, because it took a couple years for you to, get to see these films was it something that just you know the way that you retold the conversation with your friend it feels like you just the whole Star Wars thing wasn't super on your radar or was it that you weren't necessarily like a sci-fi person or like do you know why perhaps those films hadn't come into your life earlier

SPEAKER_04:

yeah I think it was because I wasn't really a sci-fi person like I do think I think those movies came like on TV every now, you know, because they were always on TV. And I think I just never, you know, I just, it was just like, you know, seeing planes shoot at each other. They're not planes, whatever, the spaceships shoot at each other, things like that. I just never, I never thought about it. I didn't think, yeah, it just wasn't on my radar. And I had seen a lot of movies in my childhood. Like I watched all those Indiana Jones when I was a kid on TV. And so I knew Harrison Ford and yet, Yeah, it wasn't until Han Solo that he suddenly became a heartthrob for me. Yeah, that's true. Also, maybe being seven versus 15 might have also. Exactly. They respond very differently.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, between Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher, the Star Wars probably awakened a lot. Yes. The Force awakens.

SPEAKER_01:

For everybody. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Force literally. And Mark Hamill was a cutie too. Yeah. Yeah. I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, but-

SPEAKER_01:

Right. That was

SPEAKER_02:

you,

SPEAKER_01:

right? Are we comparing? Yeah. Mark Hamill, like that scene where he's looking at the double.

SPEAKER_02:

Everyone's got to pick a side,

SPEAKER_01:

I guess. Yeah, yeah. Is it double moons, double suns, double planets? Oh, the sunset, the

SPEAKER_02:

binary sunset. Okay, yeah. That's the name of the song. In the original, in the first movie.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, in the first one. I was like, he is dreamy. I

SPEAKER_02:

mean, that shot was doing everything possible to make him as dreamy as possible.

SPEAKER_01:

And it worked. And it worked, yeah. I mean, so- the lighting given that it was kind of if I I hope I'm not overstepping to say like kind of love at first sight for the movies for you yeah

SPEAKER_04:

100%

SPEAKER_01:

what okay so so and the fact that you saw them essentially like all the same night was all the

SPEAKER_04:

same night yeah okay and then watched them over again like with the next weekend and then and then forced my sister and my cousins to all watch them to watch them all forced like literally sat them down and forced them to watch him and

SPEAKER_01:

how did they respond to

SPEAKER_04:

it and they loved him like like Star Wars I mean our whole family we all are obsessed with it and everyone credits it to me and

SPEAKER_01:

nice well done yeah

SPEAKER_04:

I know it's so crazy because yeah I the fact that I didn't discover it until way later it's so funny

SPEAKER_01:

well one thing that you said both when we were watching Empire and you know at the very beginning of this conversation is I mean that's a pretty big deal to say like this is my favorite film and we're really honored because like I don't think we usually get to have that with people it might be a film that they do enjoy and is beloved by them but it's not necessarily their favorite film and so between what you've expressed to us and then when you first saw these movies was that immediate for you was Empire always the film that stood out from the original trilogy or did it take some time for that to become your favorite?

SPEAKER_04:

No, it was immediately my favorite. I mean, when I watched the first one, it was so great. And then the second one just like blew it out of the water. And the third one was good too. But that second one, man, I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

Empire just sticks with you. Resounding endorsement.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, Jedi

SPEAKER_01:

was okay. Jedi was, yeah, it was good. But man. I think most people would acknowledge that Jedi is like a little, like they lean a little bit into of the corniness. The first one is definitely the most serious. Yeah. And then

SPEAKER_04:

Empire just explores it so much. And then Jedi was great too. All the Luke scenes in Jedi were really great. And the Ewoks were so cute and everything. But about that story, the way that Lucas just, the way he told that story in those three acts was just beautiful. And the second act is always, I feel like the second act is always usually the best because that's where the meat of it is. That's where the conflict is and that's where the hero is struggling with themselves. And yeah, it was just so something about it. And I was so young at the time and I wasn't really that spiritually inclined, but now as an adult, I am very much more spiritually inclined and I can see in the movie, like what appeals to me about it with the, the force and like all the deep wisdom that Lucas borrowed from all of these different traditions and religions and stuff. And, And it's so funny as a kid, I resonated with that, but it wasn't, it was so subconscious and like under it, like it wasn't something I could have necessarily told you. I was just like, it's such a good movie. They're just so good. But I couldn't have necessarily pinpointed what it was. And I think it was speaking. And I think this is why it's so big for, I mean, it's such a worldwide phenomenon. I think it just speaks to something that that's deep within us, the way religion speaks to so many or whatever these ancient traditions speak to so many because it's something that's unsayable, deep in us that's not necessarily something we're aware of all the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think you articulated that beautifully. That is

SPEAKER_02:

much more articulate than I would have been able to express my thoughts on it because I would just say as a kid, I really liked the laser swords. Right. Really loved the lightsabers. They were sick.

SPEAKER_01:

Vader was badass yeah I mean that's what it's sorry I don't mean to jump all over the place but it is something that's so interesting about this particular franchise is like you love the villain like he's so well I shouldn't speak for everybody but like I love Vader like he's not a good guy but I think he's

SPEAKER_02:

probably the most like to the extent a villain can be beloved he's probably like the most famous beloved villain of all time yeah

SPEAKER_04:

he was like the first like kind of anti-hero Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. her that's kind of yeah it felt very much like okay I could that makes all the sense in the world I mean look I think a lot of people do think of Empire is the strongest of the trilogy the original trilogy it

SPEAKER_02:

is the strongest of all of the movies the original trilogy the prequel the sequel laying it down hard yeah it is the best that the franchise has ever like offered

SPEAKER_01:

and everybody has their own reasons for why they've might think that or at the least at the least that it's the strongest of the original trilogy but I think your particular reason use my words reasons Krishna speak to also your own like that was one part of it that I found so interesting is that it speaks to kind of like what your personal passion is professional passion as well in your life and then the other side of it I thought that that was really beautifully said the way that you spoke on like the spiritual part of it

SPEAKER_02:

Yoda Yoda being Yeah, mental discipline. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And

SPEAKER_01:

there's no wrong way for us to do this conversation. So we can go wherever we want, whenever we want. So this is as good a time as any to, I think, talk about Yoda. And, you know, I think it's a good time to talk about Yoda.

SPEAKER_02:

That was not my intent. I know.

SPEAKER_01:

That's okay. I know.

SPEAKER_04:

No, you're very

SPEAKER_01:

good at leading us to. And it

SPEAKER_04:

was on my notes. Talk about Yoda. Talk

SPEAKER_01:

about Yoda. So

SPEAKER_04:

we

SPEAKER_01:

should do that. So, I mean, so there is this like, and we'll get to this part because I'm sure, you know, we'll eventually get to Han and Leia's love story. That, you know, is very much kind of set into motion in this like opening sequence of the film when they're still, when they're on Hoth. But pretty quickly, and that is something that's like. One

SPEAKER_02:

of their lovers quarrels as other members of the Rebel Alliance were awkwardly trying to get past them

SPEAKER_01:

in a hallway. Just like, don't acknowledge.

SPEAKER_02:

Just walking by. These two again. God.

SPEAKER_01:

So they have this opening sequence. But then pretty quickly it moves to Luke being told by Ben, in fact, that he needs to go to Dagobah. And here we get an introduction to one of the most iconic characters I've think in all of cinema. And I'm sorry to keep putting you in a position where I'm like asking you to like remember memories from when you were 14, 15 years old. Do you have a recollection of how you specifically felt about this particular character? I

SPEAKER_04:

do. I do. I mean, okay. So my other love besides Star Wars are the Muppets. I love the Muppets so much. That's like one of my dreams. It's like if I could work with the Muppets, I feel like I would be– You'd be great. I've hit the pinnacle of my career. That's it. I'm done, guys. Mic drop. I retired. So I love the Muppets. And so then to see this Muppet, I remember how delightful it was when I first saw it, when I first saw Yoda, this puppet. And I was like, what is happening right now? He sounds like Grover. And then sure enough, after the movie, when we were looking, it was Frank Ott. And he just– he was just so perfect. I just remember just every moment he was on screen just being so delighted by him and being so mesmerized by him and just being so excited by the fact that like this movie that I already loved had married with this other thing that I love and they were like in the same world. And, you know, it just– it was magical. And so it

SPEAKER_01:

was– He was like inspired creativity. Yeah. The way that they conjured him up.

SPEAKER_02:

I was so young when I saw it that I do remember first seeing him and not understanding immediately that that was Yoda. Like I thought it was just this little creature. Like I was, I was just like along for the ride. And as Luke was frustrated trying to find the real Yoda.

SPEAKER_01:

Got it. I'm like, yeah. That's okay. Yeah. Where's this Yoda? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Holy shit.

SPEAKER_01:

That's

SPEAKER_04:

Yoda. Yeah. You totally were on the same track. Yeah. As Luke, yeah. Discovering him.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it was a genius way of introducing that character and his viewpoint on, you know, what it means to be ready to undertake the training. Because he kind of proves his point. You know, he pretends to be this, just not obnoxious, but like inquisitive, maybe bothersome little creature. Childlike. Mischievous? Yep, absolutely. And he does all of that specifically to see how Luke reacts to him. You know, is he going to have patience with me? Is he going to be respectful towards me? Is he going to still take me seriously? And he keeps, like, it's, I don't think it's like trickery, but, or manipulation. No, it is. I do think you're totally right. He's

SPEAKER_04:

testing. Yeah, absolutely. Can he stay in the moment with what's happening versus constantly put Putting your focus on what do I need? It's such a beautiful– and you see it– it's such a beautiful– it reminds me of like a Buddhist– which I think it's all connected and I think that was part of Lucas' intention. There's like a Buddhist monk quality about him of this idea that it is. It's like can your mind stay in the now and not be in the future or in the back, in the worrying or in the stressing or in the– regretting or whatever, but be here right now with me. And I, I totally agree with you. I think all of that was testing him and, and, and trying to, trying to elicit these feelings and seeing how he would react.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's really organic. I think to like what he kind of drew out and Luke, I think we all knew was already there. Like Luke was impatient and he is easily frustrated. I just want

SPEAKER_02:

to get those power converters over in Tashi's.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like all those qualities that we had kind of already seen in him, you know, Yoda immediately picked up on and also understood, well, he's going to, you know, he can't possibly be a person who could eventually go up against Vader with these qualities not under his control.

SPEAKER_02:

He was more impulsive than his dad. Yeah. How did that work out?

SPEAKER_01:

And I thought that that was really interesting because like, although I don't think for a second back in 1980, or prior when the script for this was being created that Lucas at all were thinking so far into the future that we would see an Anakin Skywalker someday but I do think that they did a good job of tying back for all its faults the secondary trilogy I think does as good of a job as it could to show where Luke got those qualities from oh

SPEAKER_02:

the

SPEAKER_01:

prequel trilogy yeah yeah yeah and Anakin so for whatever it's worth it's I just

SPEAKER_02:

what I love is how much Anakin hated sand and Luke grows up on goddamn tattooing the perfect place he'll never go

SPEAKER_01:

there that's true

SPEAKER_02:

that's true

SPEAKER_01:

I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of like look I'm not trying to poke holes in the in the story but it is kind of interesting the way that they like split up Luke and Leia and she where she gets to go where he gets to go and let's see

SPEAKER_02:

she's gonna be a princess yeah she's gonna be a princess he's

SPEAKER_01:

gonna he's gonna

SPEAKER_02:

fucking put him in

SPEAKER_01:

the dirt he's gonna be a farmer um anyway so so in terms of like because that that becomes like a primary relationship for luke which continues into jedi yeah and so krishna for you like how do you view that relationship i mean do you see it primarily as like mentor mentee um you know what what is that friendship or in or relationship i should say do for you when you see their interactions?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. No, I do think, I think it's the traditional guru student.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, really like he's a guru of, of his sense, you know, like he's a master in this, in this tradition of the force. And, um, and Luke is the student and he is, you know, the, he was a reluctant student before, but But now he wants to pursue it, but then he's like, I need to get out of here. And so it's– I do think that there's a lot of– while and I think with Yoda too what I love about this character too is that he's not a perfect teacher either because and it's great and I do think that was also something that probably the prequels gave us a little bit more too of to see like that Yoda did mistakes made mistakes as well you know like with Anakin not being able to foresee that not being able to protect you know the fact that the Jedi's are all but extinct besides you know these random masters that are spread randomly throughout the galaxy And so, you know, it's his reluctance to like take on the student because he's scared of what's come before. And yet at the same time, you know, so I think Yoda's growing as well. And so they're both, I think, learning from each other. And so as much as he's the teacher, he's also, he's trying to grow as a teacher as well because I think he wants to be able to do that. to put his trust in something you know saving the galaxy again that sort of thing but yeah

SPEAKER_01:

I well you bring up a really interesting kind of scenario because that is something that and like I think maybe we briefly mentioned it when we were watching the movies the fact that they first Ben and then Yoda continues to like bring Luke into this situation is a really interesting choice because Anakin went so wrong the most wrong he could have and now he is this incredibly powerful evil force in the world and to say okay we're gonna take his son and possibly set him up like did it did it have to go that way and also the fact that like Yoda and Ben were like somewhat content to just like Like, be in the shadows and not necessarily do anything to confront Vader. Like, could they have found someone else that had force potential? Could they have, like, did it have to be Vader's son? I know for the purposes of, like, dramatic storytelling, yes.

SPEAKER_02:

It did.

SPEAKER_01:

But, like, isn't that, though, Anna, like, let's forget it being a movie, but, like, if we're really in this situation, is that, like, the responsible and, morally sound choice to make to have vader's child have to battle him

SPEAKER_02:

well they didn't want him to know like they were

SPEAKER_01:

trying which is another level of

SPEAKER_02:

yeah they were kind of manipulating him by telling him that vader had killed right dad you know which

SPEAKER_01:

from a certain point from a certain point of view yeah yeah So what are your thoughts? And again, obviously, we adore these movies. I just think it's a really interesting thing to

SPEAKER_04:

debate. Right. No, that's

SPEAKER_01:

a really good point. them not wanting to say, well, this is actually who you're going up against. He's actually your father. But also to think that Vader wouldn't tell him is a little, I think, naive.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think they expected it, did they? Because, you know, in Jedi, they talk about that, like, unexpected or

SPEAKER_01:

unfortunate. But why? Why would that be unexpected? Because I don't think they were

SPEAKER_04:

expecting him to go up against it. You remember how Yoda was trying to stop him from going? True. It's just like you can't change what's better for you. Is it better for you to be prepared to fight him when you do or to go in there unprepared just going in just to try to save your friends? You have to think about what's for the greater good. So I think they were thinking once his mind and his body were prepared strong enough, then it's like when you get that kind of information, it is when you think about the great Stoic philosophy and stuff. Like that's what you're really aiming for is that you're always at a balanced level that there's no such thing as good news or bad news. It's just news.

SPEAKER_01:

Nothing can unsettle you. And

SPEAKER_04:

nothing can really unsettle you. Well, that's the ideal. Obviously, we're humans and that's not always going to be the case. But then the key is it's like how quickly can you come back to balance? It's like, you know, it's okay to be unsettled, but then what's your resilience? That's a good point. was not a master of my friends when he found out.

SPEAKER_02:

So he either wouldn't have gotten thrown off balance or would have been able to recover quickly. What else were you going to say, Derek? I was going to say, do you think at any point when he was going to leave for Cloud City, he was like, hey, Master Jedi, do you want to hop in? Maybe you can

SPEAKER_00:

help? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

that's a good

SPEAKER_02:

one. That's true. We'll just fucking handle

SPEAKER_01:

this. Then I'll bring you right back. That literally never occurred to me. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

look, little guy.

SPEAKER_04:

Seriously, Derek. That literally never occurred to me until just this moment of just, that's so true. Why did it? Because I'll tell you why, because Yoda could see the future. And he was like, no, I am better. Yeah. I'm needed for bigger things.

SPEAKER_02:

I love Yoda, but that, that kind of like falls in line with how I, I look at him as a teacher, like teaching Luke to be

SPEAKER_01:

a fighter.

SPEAKER_02:

He's well, I look at him in the same way that I would think of Wayne Gretzky coaching someone like Yoda's just like, sure oh you don't think you can look here watch me just lift your x-wing I'm gonna put it back down now

SPEAKER_01:

you do it it's that easy yeah no that's that is so fascinating though I mean I think that's interesting I I think Yoda is much better at conveying the wisdom and information that future Jedi need yes but and that's why I was a little like give me a break when they showed him doing his ridiculous acrobatics against who was it Christopher Lee um and

SPEAKER_02:

the emperor and you know when he's like hopping

SPEAKER_01:

around that's true too that's true too I just remember that that cave fight yeah with Christopher Lee um and and I was like I don't that's like not how I really think of Yoda I think of him as like a spiritual like you were saying Krishna guru

SPEAKER_02:

and I was joking you know half joking about the x-wing thing because the whole reason he did that was to show him that you could have done this too if you hadn't thought you were going to fail before you even tried

SPEAKER_04:

yeah yeah right right it's like it's not it's not how big you are that matters it's what yeah it's how much you believe

SPEAKER_02:

him by his size do you yeah

SPEAKER_01:

Although, look, I even have a thingy of it that I have my running little medals on. The do or do not, there is no try. However, I don't think there's any shame in trying and not completing the thing that you set out to do. I did

SPEAKER_02:

not do it. I guess I'm done.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that that in a way goes against all modern day wisdom where it's okay to fail, especially in Okay, here's the way I look at that. If I'm in any industry, but especially entertainment,

SPEAKER_04:

go for it. 100%. I 100% agree with you. There's nothing hard about failing, but here's the difference, okay? And this is why I think it's so brilliant. It's because even when you're trying, though, Anna, you're doing. You're writing. You're not trying to write a screenplay that sucks. I'm not saying that you did that. I'm sorry. Definitely.

UNKNOWN:

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I love you.

SPEAKER_04:

It was not you, but I'm just a general. Sure, sure, sure. It's the universal you that's not you. The

SPEAKER_01:

royal

SPEAKER_04:

you. into it, doing it, you know, I'm doing the scene, I'm doing the thing and it failed. And that's vastly different from, uh, okay, I'm gonna, maybe I'll do, maybe I don't, uh, I can't really do it. Uh, you know, of just going in there and trying to lift those dumbbells, trying, not trying, doing, lifting those dumbbells, lifting those dumbbells. I got them up. Like I got them up an inch above the ground. I couldn't get up any higher, you know? And that's, that's the difference between trying and doing it's not a matter of failing you can still do something and fail but trying is the half ass not really putting your 100% into it and I think that's what that's what the meaning behind that Yoda thing was and the meaning behind the original George Lucas writing or whoever who wrote this one did George Lucas write it or did someone

SPEAKER_01:

else write it well he has a story by credit and honestly like we talk about that yeah well we talk about that yes technically though like per Lucas nothing of what she had in the original her original script actually made it into the final script but out of consideration for the fact that she passed away before the film ever was made Lucas deferred so that she could get an actual screenplay by credit and he only has a story by credit but truthfully it is a collaboration between Lucas and Kasdan so that so he so yes he he is one of the writers it's more it's really more than him just having a story by credit, but he very graciously gave up that credit to Lee Brackett.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, it seems like for whatever people think about Lucas with like the prequels and sequels, it seems like particularly with this movie, he was like very, very generous to everyone that worked on it. He was very like for like, like he, he like provided like a share of the, of the revenue that the movie made. Right. So, People were getting, there were like$5 million of like additional bonuses that came out from this movie. Oh, I didn't know

SPEAKER_03:

that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, he wanted to retain kind of like what he had already done in A New Hope as far as like retaining the credits until the end. And he just paid all those fines himself because the guilds did not want him

SPEAKER_01:

to do that. That's really interesting. It didn't even cross my mind that that would have, yeah. They didn't

SPEAKER_02:

want that to set a precedent. So they said, no, we're not going to let you do that for this one. And he said, we asked what? I'm going to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'll just pay what I need. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's cost of business then.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. That's, that's so interesting. Yeah. No, I mean, to get back to, I tried

SPEAKER_02:

very hard to get, um, Oz, a nomination for a best actor, best supporting actor.

SPEAKER_01:

That's cool. Which he should have. Yeah. He was very

SPEAKER_02:

frustrated that they, they wouldn't do it. And Frank Oz was like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. He seems like a pretty chill dude.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I'm

SPEAKER_01:

good. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, his work speaks for itself because of this iconic character that Yoda's become. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And it is, it's such a, I was watching a little bit of a documentary. What was it called? It was called Empire of Dreams, the story of the Star Wars trilogy they made back in 2004. And yeah, it's really fascinating, but they, that whole, that whole section of Dagobah, they was like months and months and they built the whole set like five, about five feet above the ground so that Frank Oz was like underneath the whole time. And they had, They had to create all the places where like he would be coming up and he couldn't hear what he couldn't hear anything because he was underground. And so they had to set up a whole like, you know, walkie talkie or whatever, like, you know, intercom system for him. Yeah. And half the time, like they were trying to talk to Yoda and he was like, I'm underneath. I can't hear you. Like you got to talk down to me. And then he had like there was like four or five of them operating the puppet. And so he had never done that before, even like on Sesame Street. in the Muppets like you know it was never more than like two people doing the puppets and so there was like five of them operating this one puppet you know and and then he was doing the voice and then the director because it was like all boggy the you know Irv Kirshner was like way on the other side and then like and Luke couldn't hear Mark Hamill couldn't hear him from just outside so he he was wearing an earpiece the whole time which I couldn't tell at all and so he could hear Yoda through the earpiece you could hear Frank from the earpiece and so it was such a technically to thinking about it as an actor I was like oh my god that's insane like how do you how do you and he's great I think Mark Hamill's fantastic in this movie like he's so good responding and being with with that puppet and but not it's just so technical

SPEAKER_01:

because especially when Luke like I'm thinking I'm flashing on when like he's like getting like the stew oh yeah out of the pot like I can kind of almost now that you've revealed that I think he did is phenomenal so like I'm not again trying to poke holes but I could almost kind of see how he might be struggling to actually hear Yoda's lines because like he like nods his head at one point he's like kind of looking away from him so I'm like oh I kind of get that yeah but he does a magnificent job of just working through

SPEAKER_02:

it I know that it was difficult and Frank Oz to try to help lighten the mood brought both Kermit and Miss Piggy to make him a laugh

SPEAKER_04:

oh I didn't know that are you

SPEAKER_02:

serious

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah But he never voiced Kermit, right? He just brought him. Yeah. He just brought him. He just brought him. Yeah. He just brought him by side. I mean, it's, that to me, so part of why I love this film, I mean, there's so many great relationships and obviously A New Hope kicks off this amazing trio of Luke, Leia, and Han, which essentially they're split up for the entirety almost of this film. Mark Hamill

SPEAKER_04:

was talking talking about that he was like for months he was the only human on the call sheet and it was like it would be like on it castles to be like one mark hamill and then it would be like props you know gila monster snakes this that you know it was like all these other random props that were like all the set and he was like and half the time he felt like no one was watching his performance everyone was just like making sure all the elements of the background like looked he was like okay that's great but am i getting are you getting what you need for me like performance notes would be

SPEAKER_01:

fantastic guys yeah that didn't even occur to me I was thinking that he doesn't even

SPEAKER_02:

he's not even really around like Leia until towards the end when he drops back into the Falcon or Caesar but then I

SPEAKER_01:

forgot about the kiss right so yeah okay so let's just bring that up real quick while we're on it I'll put a pin in what I wanted to talk about because so we okay so full disclosure the three of us were talking about this as we were watching the movies and just so we get it on the record so Krishna as far as you're concerned when they were filming that scene do you think there is at that point and I know I think you even said that there's been you know things said and written about

SPEAKER_02:

answers are out there

SPEAKER_01:

yeah the answers are out there as far as like what was all the action about the actual relationship between Luke and Leia but I mean do you well how do you view that scene I guess I could say too in light of what we've come to realize about who they are to each other? I

SPEAKER_04:

don't know. I genuinely don't know how– like I was like– my big question that I'm going to– and I never ended up looking up was did Lucas know at the time they were doing– at that point in the story that she was eventually going to be his sister? Like was that always the case? And if so, like why would you put that in there? I mean even you should have easily given him a kiss on the cheek, you know? Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

It could have been anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So they didn't know at the time.

SPEAKER_01:

I think the latter because it doesn't make any sense to me. Like, look, obviously this, this world and this extended, you know, at this point, like 11 movies, there's been a lot of retconning to, to like what the story is. So I do think that it was like a, just an open door for Lucas to, to somehow take advantage of in the next film. Yeah. And they didn't maybe know what they want to do because it is a any sense that Ben would not know that unless we're talking about big time misogyny and just like oh no way could Leia ever be somebody who could go up against Vader unless that's the answer yeah

SPEAKER_02:

didn't he already like wouldn't the Kenobi series have like shown that yeah and you brought that up Krishna

SPEAKER_01:

so you know that like he

SPEAKER_00:

has a whole

SPEAKER_04:

relationship with Leia they become like best friends like slash it's like a buddy cop movie like the two of them are like having these crazy misadventures and then he's like who's this lady

SPEAKER_01:

and even when you go back to New Hope and you know Ben dies and she's like comforting Luke it's like Leia you had a whole relationship with

SPEAKER_04:

him you knew this man it wasn't just some friend of your dad's yeah

SPEAKER_01:

it's so funny and that's why it's hard to talk about any single film without it's just impossible and that's okay like you know to kind of bring all these other things up I mean this has been such an incredible conversation of course before we even think about wrapping up I definitely want to know your thoughts on because like besides like on one end of the spectrum we have Yoda introduced and if I'm not mistaken this is the film where the Emperor is formally introduced we don't actually see the Emperor right yeah

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I can't think of him being in A New Hope.

SPEAKER_01:

He's referred to because the long guy's like your devotion to that, you know. The Emperor has

SPEAKER_02:

dissolved.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So he is spoken of, but I don't think we actually see him until Empire. We see

SPEAKER_02:

Vader FaceTiming him.

SPEAKER_01:

Correct. Yes, exactly. We see Vader FaceTiming the Emperor. A

SPEAKER_02:

team's meeting with Vader.

SPEAKER_01:

Black

SPEAKER_02:

video.

SPEAKER_00:

Zooming.

SPEAKER_01:

Zooming.

SPEAKER_02:

The

SPEAKER_01:

original Zoom meeting.

SPEAKER_02:

Leave me, Admiral Kidd. I have to Zoom.

SPEAKER_01:

I

SPEAKER_02:

have to Zoom the Emperor.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, man. Okay.

SPEAKER_04:

So. I can't hear you. Can you hear me? You're frozen. You're frozen. Ember? Ember, no, I can't hear you. I can't hear you. Right in the chat. Emperor, use the chat.

SPEAKER_01:

This is going to be the most amazing spoof video. Although I love him, he's the ultimate in evil. And so I find it really interesting for them to introduce this other character that in theory holds even more power than Vader and directs his actions. So how did you respond to the introduction of this particular character and did it affect the way that you viewed Vader at all?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, that's a good question. I couldn't, I can't. tell you what I remember from when I first watched it I genuinely can't remember what my response to The Emperor was but to me but now thinking of it it just it was just it's so cool because again what I love about this movie in general and about Lucas and this whole story is how he with each movie he builds out the world so much more so it's like we're just getting more backstory on Vader we're understanding Yeah. with this like force because we just get kind of a glimpse of it in the first one and in this one and that's what I love about it because that's what I love about the movie is just all the mythology and so building that and I think it's it's just I don't know it's just cool and it made yeah like Vader part of a bigger story versus just him in and of itself and I think that's what again makes the movie so successful too because it's a bigger world it's like it's like Harry Potter and the wizarding world. You know, it gives people, it's like, yeah, build this world out, but then keep building it so that other people can now build their own worlds out in it. It's the reason people, we love it so much. Like you said, it's like, well, if this is true, what else is true? And that's what's exciting. Not just this like rigid, this is it, you know, and that there's nothing more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

One thing that the, and I never read the books, but one thing that I can appreciate about the Harry Potter world is the specificity. Like, it's crazy to me, the specificity of that world. Like, insanely so, in the best way. And it's interesting that Star Wars was able to do as good of a job as it has done. I mean, obviously, a lot of people have critiques of certain aspects of where this franchise has gone over the last 45 years. But it has done, I think, a really good job of, like you said, continuing to build off this world. And I I mean, I will say to kind of on that point, it's one of the few things that I can appreciate about the prequel trilogy because if I'm being honest, I was always a little bit confused about why Vader is a follower of the Emperor. Like he's so powerful. Like why you need this guy, you know? And it didn't seem like his power was being funneled through the Emperor. Like he in his own right was going to have this power of the Force. So I was always kind of wondering Why are you devoted to this guy? That is the most,

SPEAKER_02:

I think, important part of the prequel trilogy is the relationship between Anakin and Palpatine. And I just wish that there had been... I wish there had been more of that and they had used more time to have more subtle interactions. Because

SPEAKER_01:

he's groomed, essentially. He is. And I

SPEAKER_02:

think they had three movies to do that and there was so much other stuff going on. They had to... take shortcuts, I think, with him. All that Jar Jar Binks

SPEAKER_04:

time could have been devoted to the Emperor.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I agree with you, Derek. I think that that could have been a fascinating trilogy to see how this, you know, ultimate figure in evil takes this really powerful but untested and traumatized young boy and uses that to his advantage.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, now that I... I think about it I think what they did to get around like that's why they have these other animated series like Rebels and Clone Wars where they do spend more time to try to build that

SPEAKER_04:

more yeah

SPEAKER_02:

because during those I think for like the Clone Wars Anakin is Anakin I think in Rebels maybe he's Vader by then I don't know I haven't watched any of the animated stuff but now I'm thinking about it because it ties into like the Ahsoka show so now it's becoming more relevant but I don't

SPEAKER_04:

know and I think if it was It was just Star Wars. Sorry, I'll just say, I think if it was a standalone movie, the first movie was standalone. I think it was obviously really popular and everyone loved it, but I don't think it would have had the lasting power that it does now if the whole trilogy didn't exist. And I think the reason why it has lasting power is because all of a sudden we saw the deeper thing of like, oh, what is, people were so curious about what is Vader's backstory? Like, what is his relationship? Like, he's not just this villain who's a bad guy who has has this ability to you know do supernatural things he's there's something there's something there but obviously the story wasn't fully told all we got was that for whatever reason he's devoted to this emperor and then that allowed people's imaginations to be like what is this backstory what is there like why you know and so I think that's that was the reason why I

SPEAKER_01:

think you're totally right because even though Ben in the first film you know obviously refers to Vader's like more machine than man we don't really why is

SPEAKER_02:

that ben we don't really

SPEAKER_01:

yeah exactly like what does that

SPEAKER_02:

mean how did

SPEAKER_01:

he lose all his limbs yeah i know but it's such a it's like i wouldn't call like a throwaway line but there's really nothing more made of that and it's only an empire that we get those little glimpses of like when his helmet comes down on his head and how his his um subordinate is like kind of repelled by yes his his actual physical body what's And like, like that, absolutely. I agree with you that those little glimpses make everybody so curious of like, what is so brilliant. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And yeah, I got to hand it to the dry. I do think it was probably Kirshner to a large degree of like the, what he, what he wanted to focus on, what he wanted to show, like how much is too much and how much is too little. There's a couple of scenes. Apparently there was a scene I was watching that documentary. They re they re taped the scene in cloud city with, um, with Leia and Han when they're waiting for Lando, you know, and she's like, I don't trust him. And in the original scene, they actually kiss. Like they're kissing and they're, you know, yeah. And so then they were like, it's too much. We're showing too much. Like that's not, we want it to be more subtle. And so I, they went back and did retakes of all of that, which was

SPEAKER_01:

so expensive. Were you just kissing her on the forehead?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I was just kissing her on the forehead. And there's no, yeah, there's no like, it's just the implication of it, but they're not, you know, Yeah. And she's like, you're leaving, aren't you? And we just understand that that would be sad for both of them. And so, yeah, I think that just that decision to keep things subtle and to show these moments where we're kind of understanding who this person is, but we don't get the full picture. And so we're still like, what? Who is this man? The mystery of it. I think that was brilliant.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that that is something that sometimes that nuance is lost now. Mm-hmm. where filmmakers don't have confidence. And that extends back to like screenwriters, you know, like a lot of people are scared that audiences aren't going to get something. And so they just over-explain and

SPEAKER_02:

explain that.

SPEAKER_01:

And, and then that's not fun either. So, so I think that that in another form of risk-taking. So I think that that is, I

SPEAKER_02:

feel like the whole like audiences might need this experience. somewhere Chris Nolan is like well fuck them

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I know Chris Nolan's like no you don't get anything out of me they

SPEAKER_02:

can figure it

SPEAKER_01:

out yeah which I think that that is something that's not talked about enough in terms of cinema and sure television too but like I do think that that's something that's always been really interesting specifically about film is what you are giving to the audience and what you are leaving to like look okay obviously the classic example at this point although it was a mistake Or not unintended, I should say, was Jaws, you know, where like the audience being able to imagine what the shark was like was way more effective than the numerous instances of seeing it. we have finally at the end of this film, the reveal, the reveal of all reveals. It

SPEAKER_02:

shocked me to my core.

SPEAKER_01:

Did it?

SPEAKER_02:

I

SPEAKER_01:

didn't expect it.

UNKNOWN:

Okay. Yeah, no, it was, I was like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. I don't remember. I don't remember my reaction. So Krishna, do you remember yours?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Same Derek. I was totally shocked. I was like, what? We had to pause the movie. It was another instance

SPEAKER_01:

where I was like,

SPEAKER_04:

what?

SPEAKER_01:

What? So you did not see it coming.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I did not see it coming in a million years. And I'm so impressed to this day with my friend. Shout out to Renu because I keep talking about

SPEAKER_00:

her.

SPEAKER_04:

Well done, Renu. The fact that she didn't let that slip because I definitely, when I showed it to my cousins and my sister, I 100% was like, watch this part. It's really important. You find out something really important. Like,

SPEAKER_01:

okay. I was

SPEAKER_04:

so like, yeah. So this day they still make fun of me. We're like, remember when you ruined star Wars, like moments. I mean, but yeah, I was shocked. Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

They do do a good job. I will say this. Cause like, you'd be like, Oh, was he being intentionally, you know, obtuse but like I do think it makes sense why the Emperor says son of Skywalker must not blah blah blah because at this point Vader has disavowed the name Skywalker so it makes sense why he wouldn't just say your kid he's like I don't want you to

SPEAKER_04:

identify with any part of that part of you you know that was Skywalker was a Jedi you were not a Jedi yep

SPEAKER_01:

nope that makes total sense because

SPEAKER_04:

that's the dark side so the lights side is all about incorporating all the parts of you and accepting all the parts of you. And then the dark side is about fracturing and, you know, deadening like parts of yourself or repressing it or like separating, you know, it's, I

SPEAKER_02:

keep going back to Harry Potter. I mean, all that's true, but you just don't know the power of the

SPEAKER_01:

dark side. So then, okay. So to, to come to, you know, I am somewhat moving in, in chronological order, but as we get now, to the final moments of this particular film I'm really curious Krishna so Leia and Lando have gotten Luke and he's like he's not resting but he's he's safe at this point and then Vader starts with like the force talking

SPEAKER_02:

force teams chat

SPEAKER_01:

yeah force teams chat and what I find fascinating is that Luke immediately goes So, yeah. That

SPEAKER_04:

felt a little forced.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, thank you. I can't remember at the time, but like

SPEAKER_04:

now. Yes, it was. No. No, but when we were watching it together, I was like, really? Really, father? Like that was kind of immediate. But I guess what they were trying to do trying to do was show that like deep down he was like search within yourself you know it to be true and i think it was supposed to be like basically showing that oh it's it's real it's not something he's making up and he can feel it in his soul but yeah but yeah i don't know if it was the acting or if it was just the dialogue father i don't know what else you could say daddy dad papa

SPEAKER_02:

that would have been amazing if you had just been like daddy

SPEAKER_04:

daddy

SPEAKER_02:

And then just have a quick cut to Lando looking back

SPEAKER_00:

like, who is this? Who are you talking to?

SPEAKER_01:

Daddy Vader? Who is this weirdo? I know that is funny because he's like, don't know who you are. Yeah. I mean, that's the only part that felt a little. But there was

SPEAKER_02:

so much going on at that point. It's like I clocked it and I just attribute it to like the connection between like these two. like so at the level that he was like reaching out and like telepathically or whatever connecting with Luke it just elicited that immediate response

SPEAKER_00:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

and with Luke being in the state that he was like injured and he just gone through this trauma it was just like it just happened and then it was on to the Falcon trying to like escape from sure from everything

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean what my takeaway and this does circle back to like what we were talking about earlier is you know Luke to himself maybe but maybe he trying to reach out he says at least once maybe more than once like ben why didn't you tell me yeah

SPEAKER_00:

and high drama

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and and now krishna i i totally um like see see the viewpoint of like well look the whole strategy for yoda and ben was to wait until luke was strong enough to be able to like receive yeah receive that information given that luke feels obviously like Like Ben should have been transparent about it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Does that change your opinion at all? I don't know. I don't know what I think. I don't know if he should have known earlier or not.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know either. Like it's such a hard, it's, I think that's, it's such a common thing too. I think like when you read stories or hear, you know, just the hero's journey, I think there it's, you know, when you talk about Neo in the matrix or again, Harry in the Harry Potter series, there's, there's information that is withheld from them all, you know, like he doesn't need, doesn't know that he's the one until it's later it's like and when you go back to the Oracle she's like you weren't ready to know you know it's like there is like there is like an order that you know these people these leaders or heroes need to hear things because you find out too soon it rattles you and you can't maybe go on the journey you're supposed to and so I don't know I'm always in the camp of you know like everyone's doing the best they can and I don't know if

SPEAKER_01:

they're not never never never been down this path before with telling the kid of the most evil guy

SPEAKER_04:

yeah what's you know Obi-Wan made mistakes with Darth Vader too so he probably was trying to figure out like what yeah

SPEAKER_02:

like it it did had had no impact on how Vader approached that confrontation with Luke like he was he was basically out for blood he tried to get him frozen but he was also like more than happy to like take him down if he needed to would Luke have have approached that confrontation the same way if he had known ahead of time that that was his dad and Jedi Return of the Jedi kind of tells us no he would not have

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean I think maybe it's like okay I can get on board with Yoda and Ben's strategy but the moment where they realized oh Luke is gonna leave then maybe you'd be like hold on a second because we have to tell you something

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

you know if you're gonna do this then you should come equipped with all the information maybe hop on

SPEAKER_02:

in Yoda I know I know

SPEAKER_01:

And, you know, I don't know. But I think that if I may, though, it does set up one of the best, like, you know, what's going to happen next kind of moments in cinema. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I'm too young to know what, like, the anticipation was for Jedi. But, like, in real time. But, I mean, my goodness. To have a film end that way. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm sure it must've been huge. I mean, as much anticipation as there was between one and two or four and five, I'm sure between five and six, it was like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because that was it. Like, we didn't think that we'd have like 20 more films and five more series. It was just like, this is the end of the story. I can't wait to find out what happened. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, if I may though, I'm glad that we didn't watch Jedi because I think that that then would have been too fresh in our minds to like, to, to try to better imagine what the feelings were. Right. Of like, what is this ending? Yeah. This is the ending

SPEAKER_04:

of this movie versus... Yeah. And it's another podcast. I think it just might be. I know we've gone on really long, but can we just have one more? I have one more thing that I wanted to touch on. Was just that... and we started talking about him actually was Lando the fact that this is the first black character in the Star Wars world and only one really that we see that's like a major character until we get to Finn yeah until we get to like the current day where now it's like we you know we gotta be more inclusive but like back then I feel like in any sci-fi I don't know a ton Han of– like, 2001 Space Odyssey was probably one of the big ones. And, like, you know, but I don't know, like, all the big sci-fi stuff then. But, like, I feel like this was a– it was a really big deal. And he was, like, a great character. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

he was so charismatic. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they had to find somebody who could hold his own against somebody like Han. And he totally does. I mean, I think that's the thing that I'm so impressed by. Like, this is actually something that– was brought up believe it or not when we talked about Masters of the Universe because I I was like a little thrown by the intros to those characters because it was just like so immediate with like the way that they knew each other and not a lot of context was given for the audience but our guest for that episode made a really good point of saying well that's essentially how the Star Wars films began and I was like you know you're right and that's where the

SPEAKER_02:

comparisons between Empire Strikes Back and Masters of the Universe

SPEAKER_01:

ends but to say to say though that like what we see immediately between Han and Lando is so authentic to me in terms of like these guys have like seemingly decades of history behind them yeah and and it instantly comes through for me and so yes he is no I'm very very glad you brought him up and I mean Derek you're much more the sci-fi guy than I am a sci-fi girl so I don't know the extent to diversity and inclusivity being part of this genre I

SPEAKER_02:

mean I think it really like one I don't want to create like an internet war by claiming that Star Wars is sci-fi because there are some people who will say that it is very much not sci-fi and it is more of like a fantasy that just happens to be set in space

SPEAKER_01:

okay I see what you're saying but when you like because you compare it

SPEAKER_02:

with things like like The Expanse or Battlestar Galactica or like like Star Trek even I think yeah like across the Star Wars universe I feel like there's a pretty reasonable amount of diversity throughout like the different shows in the expanse there very much is like Star Wars I don't know how much it has to do with like the genre versus the just like the years that these were released I don't I don't really know but I don't think the genre necessarily dictates that

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean I I think that as unfortunately we've brought up with like many films of this era that we cover the lack of representation and I think for this film being right off the bat we're at the very beginning of this decade it's 1980 I think that like I don't know the background in terms of like the casting process for this character if this was like in a manner of speaking a Ripley situation where they're like we just want to find the best person for this role. That wouldn't surprise me.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it wouldn't

SPEAKER_04:

surprise me either.

SPEAKER_01:

And he was amazing. I thought he was, like, can't think of a better choice. No, he was so great. Yeah. And like you said, in terms of... Go ahead, Derek. Oh, go ahead, Krishna.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I was going to say, I think... Krishna, you go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I was just going to say, like, yeah, we are introduced, like, just randomly, like, Especially in this movie, you get Yoda, you get Lando, you get the Emperor, you get Boba Fett, you get all these new worlds and stuff of characters. And yeah, those relationships are so important. And right off the bat, I thought Billy Dee Williams does a great job of just being like, oh, I know this guy. It's just immediately recognizable. And there's no trying to figure out like who's this guy like why is he here like why do we like why do we need him you know he's like oh this is who this guy is he's a slick guy he seems like he's a con man like he's Han's history now we're building the world of Han too you know it's like every character we were building in their worlds and so I thought they just did a phenomenal job of immediately making us care about these characters that we don't get actually a lot of time with correct

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean Lando comes in so so late in this movie

SPEAKER_02:

yeah they don't I mean you obviously he's a big part of Return of the Jedi but what I was going to say is that he is an important enough character where he is a big part of like the standalone solo movie and I think they were going to make a series that is now going to just be another movie for Lando possibly

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I've seen a couple things come through with Donald Glover talking about and he's actually I think one of the more successful what's the word I'm looking for like person to take on he was a great yeah he was a he was a great Lando um he really captured like the essence of of the original and I mean I think that um to to get back to your original point Krishna the fact that Lando because I'm like trying to think so like yes we have Yoda system yes we have Yoda and Emperor but in terms of like um you know just like human characters that are introduced now into this world he I think is like you know if I was strictly speaking going to go by billing of these characters, he'd be a firm number four behind the original trilogy. So yes, I think for the time that this was made, I'm very glad that more recent Star Wars properties have very much embraced diversity as they should. But this is huge that they did this all the way back in 1980 for such a central role.

SPEAKER_02:

When I saw it as a kid, I didn't really like think about it. And I don't really know what, um, what other people like adults during that time would have thought about it. But

SPEAKER_01:

because also Billy D D Williams, you know, certainly this put him on like the global map and he already had some, some attention for, um, oh my gosh, what was it called? Brian song. Oh yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. And so he had attention from that, but you know, he wasn't necessarily like a sure thing. for this role. I don't think he had a ton of heat on him. But then again, outside of maybe Carrie Fisher, which, you know, arguably, you know, Mark Hamill had done a little bit, Han Solo, Harrison Ford, you know, like he, he already knew

SPEAKER_02:

Lucas. Harrison Ford did a little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, prior to being cast as Han. Yeah. I mean, he already knew Lucas from American Graffiti. Right. Which is the reason actually,

SPEAKER_04:

Harrison, Lucas didn't want to cast Harrison Ford at first because he wanted total unknowns.

SPEAKER_01:

Interesting. Well, he didn't exactly get that. I mean, Carrie Fisher was so young that by virtue of professional experience, she didn't have a lot.

SPEAKER_04:

She was known in the industry, but the rest of the world didn't know who she was. That's a good point. They didn't even realize. Yeah, yeah, because she had never done anything before. She was a fresh face, even if-

SPEAKER_01:

Very much so.

SPEAKER_04:

Even after the fact, they were like, oh, that's Debbie Fisher's daughter. But in terms of watching her, it's not like- they were like, oh, that girl. I need to go watch her. And then Mark Hamill had done...

SPEAKER_01:

Who's that girl?

SPEAKER_04:

And Mark Hamill had done TV, but he had never done any film before. So it was his first... Oh. Yeah. And back then it really was different. And back then it was really different than now too, as in like, I feel like TV stars and movie stars are, I mean, I don't know, I guess there's like really big movie stars, like the Julia Roberts of the world. But in general, I feel like they're kind of I'm on equal footing now. There's, there's not as much of a, there's not the gap at least has definitely decreased from back then. It was like there was movie stars and there was TV stars and they were two totally different things.

SPEAKER_02:

Very much so. Fortunately, movie stars and TV stars, whether you're a TV star or a movie star, you can still crap all over influencers.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

We're not that. Yeah. Yeah. That's,

SPEAKER_02:

that's, that's what the new thing. Yeah. No, no. I'm not an influencer. I'm on TV.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm an actor. I'm an actor. I'm not a content creator.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I don't think saying you make content is like– I don't take that in the way that a lot of people do. I just

SPEAKER_02:

hear influencers say it, so I was just

SPEAKER_01:

– I know. Just recently, though. Gosh. Fair enough. Fair enough. I'm blanking on the person who is like, I don't want to be called stupid. someone who makes content. Some actor recently said that. I mean, the funny thing is

SPEAKER_02:

those influencers, some of those influencers probably make a lot more than

SPEAKER_01:

any of us. So like, whatever. Look, there's a balance to be struck between being able to create a life for yourself that you enjoy and gives you security and comfort and being someone who puts out into the world performances and dare I say content that is like of artistic nature. that you're proud of, that has a legacy and lasting appeal? Like, you know, so it's like, I guess what your priority is. I don't know. I'm not going to vilify one, I guess, but. I'll do it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's a big conversation. That's definitely a big conversation. Big conversation. What is art? Is there crossover? Like, what is the purpose of it? Like, because, yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of garbage narrative stuff, too, that you could call just content.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04:

But It's like at the same time, it's like, who's the judge? You know, if it's bringing someone a chance to like, you know, get away from their real life for a moment to enjoy this, whatever it is. And it's like, I don't know. It's such a big conversation. It

SPEAKER_01:

is. But I agree with, I agree with what you just said. Like if that in some way brings joy and respite to somebody for even a couple minutes, like who am I to say that, that it's not worth having in the world? I don't know. So, I mean, this though, I think like brings us to like maybe a, perfect if I may say final question which is you know look this has to Derek's earlier point you know he put down his cards of saying that this is the best film

SPEAKER_02:

of it's my yeah it's my favorite of like anything else in the Star Wars universe

SPEAKER_01:

and that's I mean totally fair I'm not even disputing that for myself why are you

SPEAKER_02:

disputing this

SPEAKER_01:

but why are you being so contrary on it given that this is also a conversation in terms of like this is probably the most profitable franchise of all time we're talking multi-billion yeah I think probably more

SPEAKER_04:

than the Marvel Marvel universe probably even right

SPEAKER_01:

I think so over the longevity of it so far and you know we're talking about just everything that can be um stamped with the Star Wars label has been like we all know about really that actually it was the toy tie-ins that were like more profitable for Lucas than the films themselves

SPEAKER_04:

and it's crazy because he only kept the he asked for the merchandising not because he was planning on any of that he didn't think the movie was going to be that successful but what he thought was that the studio isn't going to care about this movie and so if I have merchandising I can print out my own posters and print out my own banners and I can market it because I want to get it seen and I can take it around places so he that's the reason he kept the merchandising like rights was because he wanted to be able to market it so he could at least get it seen because he didn't think that's interesting isn't that crazy and then that led to I mean happy accident for him

SPEAKER_01:

yeah that's amazing

SPEAKER_04:

but yeah because no one had ever done like toy merchandising for like sci-fi not that it's again I don't know sci-fi space fantasy but like a movie like this like they were Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

in light of everything like where do you come down and there's no wrong answer I don't even think to say like oh I don't necessarily think this is like an artistic film is like a negative response but like how do you view this film is this like a popcorn movie for you I mean you have spoken to the way that it connects for you in terms of the way you view spirituality so again I think that there is a deeper meaning for you but like where does this fall for you in terms of like how you view it as an artistic film

SPEAKER_04:

I absolutely I absolutely see it as an artistic film. Such

SPEAKER_01:

creativity. Really beautiful art history, by the way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Oh my God, it's gorgeous. And so I don't think you can take that away from it. Whether something is entertaining or not is a different question than whether it's artistic or not. And I absolutely think they can overlap. I don't think that it's one or the other. And I think it's a popcorn movie too, but that's because popcorn meaning I enjoy it and I love it and I can watch it over and over again. And I think it's great when things are both sometimes you know and I think honestly I think every filmmaker entertaining might not be the right word but every filmmaker wants their movie wants people to want to watch the movie they want it to be interesting you know if nothing else it's like it might be like hard to watch it might be like oh this is like really dark or deep or whoa like it's going all over the it's going all over it's expanding it's expanding my mind in all these ways, but it's still, they want it to be interesting. And so, you know, I think, now I don't remember. I feel like now I've rambled on. I don't remember what the original

SPEAKER_00:

question was. No, not

SPEAKER_01:

at

SPEAKER_00:

all. Is it a popcorn meme?

SPEAKER_01:

I completely agree. And I mean, I wasn't asking you that just to like reaffirm my own feelings on it, but I do agree with what you've said. And I mean, I will always argue for the validity of, and it kind of ties to what we were just saying, like something doesn't have to be like an artistic masterpiece to be worth creating and enjoyment for enjoyment's sake is perfectly okay yeah one of my favorite movies is the blues brothers

SPEAKER_04:

yes

SPEAKER_01:

yes I love

SPEAKER_04:

the blues brothers yes

SPEAKER_01:

Carrie

SPEAKER_04:

Fisher Carrie Fisher yeah Carrie

SPEAKER_01:

Fisher connected to you she's so great in

SPEAKER_04:

that too

SPEAKER_01:

and look when I like when I think back to challenging times in my life if I feel so inclined to like put something on I'm not putting on saw you well no but I'm not but I'm not look as much as like a film like I don't know um I don't know why Amadeus is the film like Oppenheimer yeah yeah Oppenheimer you know like like there are films that are just so beautifully crafted and made and and hopefully a bit acknowledged for that but that's not the comfort film that I'm going to when I'm feeling pretty

SPEAKER_02:

down I'm gonna put on the thin red line

SPEAKER_01:

exactly exactly no exactly and I adore the I love that movie, but that's not– yeah, I adore that film, but that is not a film that I can put on when I'm in a moment where I need just comfort. So all to say, like, yeah, and they're not mutually exclusive categories in terms of, like, entertaining

SPEAKER_04:

and artistic. And there's ones that are more like, yeah, like they're, they're studying like, yeah, that human condition. And it's more of, yeah, like those ultra closeups of humans. And I love those movies too. And then there's some that are artistic in the way. And I think that is George Lucas. And I, I would put, um, James Cameron in the same category too. Yeah. Yep. 100%. I would 100%, like I would put Avatar as an artistic movie in the sense that it's, Cameron is the same way. Like he created a whole new, he created the CGI that was needed for that movie. Like that didn't exist before avatar. Like, you know, so they're, they're doing groundbreaking stuff because they're exploring new territory. And I think that's what art is. It's like risk. Yeah. They're, they're taking risks. They're doing things that have never been done. And that I think is essentially what art is like, are you doing something that is new? That is, and it might feel familiar. It might look familiar. There might be like elements that you're, whatever but there's something about it that's new that's you know that at some level you're taking a risk and I think that's what makes something an artistic movie versus what we're seeing so much of now too when we do with the remakes or with the yeah with the reboots and the remakes and the sequels that aren't good because they're literally just okay this formula worked let's make a hundred movies in that formula because that's the way to make money and that is not No, I think that's beautifully said. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

And this has been just the most phenomenal conversation. I've been looking forward to it all week. It's true. It is true. And just so over the moon that not only that you wanted to come back to the

SPEAKER_02:

show.

SPEAKER_01:

That's no moon. We had the privilege of getting to speak with you in general, but also about a film that means so much to you I mean that's really special for us and we got to watch it with you and we got to watch it with you which is so so special we so rarely rarely rarely and the fact that we got to do that for our 100th episode so on just all levels it's been tremendous for us and you know at the top of our conversation of course spoke to the beautiful and fun and amazing work that you do as both producer and actress and I just wanted to see if you'd like to share with our listeners you know we're aware that at this time there is still a SAG strike happening and so just wanted to talk to you about you know where people can maybe support you know individuals who are part of SAG and anything else that you'd like to share yeah

SPEAKER_04:

no yeah we are on strike right now so not working on any big projects I'm still working with my theater company so yeah go out and see local theater because that's where a lot of um artists are still working and and playing and um and also um if if you do want to help with the strike efforts um you can donate to the entertainment community fund which supports crew members um not just actors but everyone who's affected by the strike if because if we're not working shows there's no shows working on it which means all of the behind the scenes people aren't working all of the hair and makeup people aren't working. All of the people who feed us, like all of those people who get like the catering services aren't working. And so, you know, and they depend on those kinds of big, big projects to, to do that. So, um, yeah, the entertainment community fund goes out to all of those people. So, um, but yeah, um, you know, hopefully, hopefully, um, corporate greed will subside in the next few months and we'll get a contract and we'll get back to work in next, next year, this later this year.

SPEAKER_01:

And also, to reiterate, please support the Entertainment Community Fund. And also, whether it's during a strike or not, always support your local theaters. It is so important because that is certainly, if I may, you can speak to this more keenly than I can, Krishna, but theater always needs support. The people who are a part of theater do it truly, truly for the love of it, not because it's a highly lucrative Way to express artistry. Although, you know, maybe there's the rare exception on Broadway, Hamilton. I don't know. But for the most part, it's truly a labor of love. It really is. Even on

SPEAKER_04:

Broadway. I have a friend right now who has a play that's kind of in process of getting some sort of Broadway release. But it's like he's talking about all the business aspects of it. And it's insane. Like, it's so hard to even make money back in Broadway. Yep. So theater everywhere, whether it's New York City where it feels like, oh, or in your local towns, even community theaters, it's just a beautiful way for people to make art. So definitely support it. And it's such a fun thing to do, too, of just going out and being amongst people, watching live humans on stage do this thing. It's one of those things that AI will not be able to do. to take is theater so you know true

SPEAKER_01:

and it's I mean it is like the original way of storytelling you know besides sitting around a fire and just you know the verbal act of relaying stories like being on a stage like that's how it all kind of began so definitely go out support your local theater support actors on strike and all the connected industries to it and in the meantime Krishna just thank you again for being on the show is truly, truly our pleasure. Oh

SPEAKER_04:

my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I love you guys so much. And this is such a fun podcast. And like I said, I'm just so grateful that I got to do my favorite movie in the world. So

SPEAKER_01:

yay. Krishna, we love you. Thank you so much for an amazing conversation. That was awesome. I mean, I... Yes. The whole, like, would you watch this film again?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I would. It is one of my favorite movies of all time. It is, I think, the first movie that I ever saw in a theater when I was just a toddler and my parents took me to see

SPEAKER_01:

this movie. Aww. Yeah. I mean, of course. This is... Now, for a while, this was just, like, on rotation for me where I'd do something in the house or whatever. Yeah. would just be on so actually it was really nice I was mentioning this to you the other night that it was awesome to have an opportunity to just sit down and and we got to do it with Krishna yeah and and just watch watch the film and like really pay attention to it and I really really am grateful for having had that opportunity because it has been a really long time since I've just given this film my full attention

SPEAKER_02:

so yeah I know like actually like purposefully watching it and the fun part about that is that it like really holds up

SPEAKER_01:

oh totally

SPEAKER_02:

like watching it and actually paying attention sometimes when that when you do that with a movie that you haven't seen in a while you're like hmm I never noticed that thing you actually caught someone in the background of the falcon yeah running around that we never see before remember yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah that was really funny

SPEAKER_02:

well watching it and actually like paying attention it just like makes me like remember how much I love this movie and sadly I would not have been a toddler when I saw this because this came out like when I was five so I would have just been like a kid

SPEAKER_01:

you're a kid

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

so somewhat connected to what you're just saying call the action uh-huh I think my base so we were debating this when we were watching this and now I there are probably people out there who well I shouldn't even say probably there are people out there there are people out there who know far far far far far more than I do even if I consider myself a Star Wars fan and I'm looking at Star Wars wallpaper in our room right now but

SPEAKER_02:

it's not our we just didn't move it

SPEAKER_01:

so maybe people definitively know this out there but we don't we were debating the whole time we were watching this at one point did they decide Luke and Leia were brother and sister

SPEAKER_02:

yeah that's a I'm sure that story's got to be out there somewhere right

SPEAKER_01:

well I just want to know it I mean first of all people know let us know and also I want to know what because we were laughing about it about you know and like the whole cringe and gross and being funny about it but

SPEAKER_02:

how yeah how should i feel about the kiss and what did they know about their relationship at the time that they filmed that did they know at that point like was it because if it was just to make me never think that they were brother and sister congratulations right i it worked right i wouldn't have thought that but if they did know it and they had them it's what very weird

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yes yeah so if you want to get in touch with us we'd love to hear hear from you. You can reach out through Facebook, Twitter, X, whatever you want to call it, and Instagram. The

SPEAKER_02:

formerly mildly successful platform that I still did not really participate in, now called X. Now

SPEAKER_01:

called X. And we are on threads, although I need to be active on threads. Just get in touch with us. It's the same handle for anywhere you want to find us. It is at 80s Montage Pod and 80s is 80S. Okay. Sneak peek episode one. One. Oh. One.

SPEAKER_02:

Hmm. Do you have any clues, any hints for me? I

SPEAKER_01:

have one.

SPEAKER_02:

What do you got?

SPEAKER_01:

I have one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, what is it, though? One. Uh-huh. Like, one what?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

SPEAKER_03:

man.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I obviously know what the clue is. I did think that you were gonna go five six seven eight but I like I like one two one singular clue

SPEAKER_01:

it's a sensational wait singular yeah singular sensation

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

every little step or he we've heard both versions

SPEAKER_02:

we have we have and of course we are talking about a chorus line

SPEAKER_01:

a chorus line

SPEAKER_02:

that the movie with the song that will not leave my brain it's

SPEAKER_01:

quite catchy

SPEAKER_02:

it is it is

SPEAKER_01:

quite catchy I can see I mean, literally all weekend, we were both just walking around the house. I

SPEAKER_02:

can see why they had, let me check my notes here, about 30,000 performances on Broadway.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh,

SPEAKER_02:

is that true? No. Oh. It was a lot. Okay. It's on the record, but I exaggerated slightly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I'm super excited. We are yet again, the theme for the season, many, many, many amazing returning guests. This one is no exception. She is a singular sensation. She actually really is. She's incredible. And we're so excited to have her back on the show. So that will be coming up in two weeks' time. And in the meantime, again, just, I mean, 100 episodes. It's kind of incredible. And given that there are– I say it a lot, but it's true. There's so many options out there for people. And the fact that anybody would spend their precious time to listen to our– Me and during thoughts on things.

SPEAKER_02:

One way to say it is that there are a lot of options. Another way is that podcasts, it's just completely saturated. They're everywhere. If you've listened to even one of ours. Well, geez. Thank you. Yeah. How did you find it? It's amazing. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

I am very grateful. Yeah. In the season of gratitude, the spirit of the month. So thank you to everybody. Hundred episodes down. Who knows how many to go

SPEAKER_02:

there's no way to tell how many movies are

SPEAKER_01:

there in the 80s oh geez okay we got we got a lot of seasons ahead of us in that case so thank you again and we will talk to you in two weeks time