'80s Movie Montage

Field of Dreams

• Anna Keizer & Derek Dehanke • Season 4 • Episode 15

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With special -- and returning! -- guest Daniel Strange, Anna and Derek chat about lucid ghosts, the whisper mystery and so much more during their discussion of the perfect summer flick Field of Dreams (1989).

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Anna Keizer and Derek Dehanke are the co-hosts of ‘80s Movie Montage. The idea for the podcast came when they realized just how much they talk – a lot – when watching films from their favorite cinematic era. Their wedding theme was “a light nod to the ‘80s,” so there’s that, too. Both hail from the Midwest but have called Los Angeles home for several years now. Anna is a writer who received her B.A. in Film/Video from Columbia College Chicago and M.A. in Film Studies from Chapman University. Her dark comedy short She Had It Coming was an Official Selection of 25 film festivals with several awards won for it among them. Derek is an attorney who also likes movies. It is a point of pride that most of their podcast episodes are longer than the movies they cover.

Daniel Strange first established himself as a unique comedic voice as the Director/Editor of "Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis", and has gone on to a varied career: directing 100+ commercials, writing video games ("Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions"), producing shows ("Written by a Kid", "KISStory"), even giving a presentation about his animated short, "Scary Smash," at Walt Disney Animation.

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SPEAKER_00:

50 years ago, for five minutes, you came this close. I mean, it would kill some men to get that close to their dream and not touch it. They'd consider it a tragedy. Son,

SPEAKER_01:

if I'd only gotten to be a doctor for five minutes, now that would have been a tragedy. I better be getting home. Alicia will think I got a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_05:

Whoa, and welcome to 80s Movie Montage. This is Derek.

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And this is Anna.

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And maybe that's not the clip you expected to hear for the movie that we are covering. Maybe you expected to hear James Earl Jones as Terrence Mann talking about baseball. But I figured so many people have heard

SPEAKER_04:

that clip. Why aren't we hearing that clip?

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from the movie that we're covering, Field of Dreams, that I wanted to give a little bit of love to who I felt was one of the more compelling characters, Burt Lancaster as Dr. Moonlight Graham.

SPEAKER_04:

Well done. Thank you. Yeah. I love him in this movie. And I mean, of course, we'll get to all the main players, but I wish that you could hear a smile because the little smile he gives Ray after he says that is just the most wholesome adorable thing in the world.

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From my mind, he's easily the most interesting of the ghosts that

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you see. It's funny because we actually get well, maybe it's because Shoeless Joe Jackson is a known figure. I guess the assumption is that people would know his backstory, but he's a little bit more enigmatic than Dr. Graham. Yes, feel the dream Fill

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the dreams.

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his I think he goes by WP but it's William Patrick Kinsella and it's interesting because he actually was Canadian and but was known for some of at least some of his work was centered around baseball which you know us Americans like to Bogart as a very American I mean they call it America's pastime

SPEAKER_05:

so it is Canadians pastime as well obviously a long rich tradition of baseball leaving to become what the nationals the expos

SPEAKER_04:

yeah i mean we've only ever had the expos and the blue jays right as canadian teams um but in any case yeah so i mean preceding the book shoeless joe from which this screenplay was adapted he did um a short story called shoeless joe jackson comes to iowa and so that's what he expanded upon

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okay

SPEAKER_04:

and And he wasn't a screenwriter. Like that's not what he did. He wrote novels and short stories. So the other credits that I have for him are adaptations from other works that he did. So there was a book that he wrote called Dance Me Outside, which was adapted into a screenplay. And then also a TV series called The Rez, also from the book. Well, it's from the book Dance Me Outside, but it's like, I guess characters were pulled from it to create the series. The

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Dance Me Outside universe.

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for this film and he got an Oscar nomination for it all right best adapted screenplay I think well well deserved I think so

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yeah

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it's it's great so and I okay so I have not read the book Shoeless Joe so I don't know to what degree um changes were made or if he was faithful I think and this is why the book was like a little bit controversial because you know in in the film it's Terrence Mann who's this kind of reclusive author I believe in the book it's J.D. Salinger

SPEAKER_06:

oh

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so yeah and I don't know if they just didn't probably have the rights to use his name and likeness in any case so Robinson you know he has some other credits that I think a lot of people would be familiar with he's still very much working today so I mostly have films for him he was the screenwriter now this is strictly speaking his writing credits uh the film rhinestone

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oh okay yeah yeah dolly parton right yeah

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and is it burt reynolds sylvester stallone you're thinking best little whorehouse in texas i

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am yeah

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no it's uh dolly parton and sylvester stallone so he did that he did all of me

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all of me still cracks me up because the the movie poster has like the longest block of text describing what the film is yeah yeah it's amazing

SPEAKER_04:

And he probably came up not too long ago. I don't know how much we went into his professional life, but he got an uncredited credit for Fletch. Okay. So that was just a couple episodes ago. So we encourage you to go back to that one. Check that one out. Yeah. A film called In the Mood. So now I know we brought him up because I remember commenting on this. He used a pseudonym, Chris Reese, to do the screenplay of Ghost Dad.

SPEAKER_05:

Interesting. I think if I was going to be credited for anything on Ghost Dad, like, for example, if I was Phil Alden Robinson, I would have put the credit in as not Phil and Alden

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Robinson. But then he follows up strong. He did the screenplay for Sneakers.

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Okay,

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that's cool. And then, you know, I was mentioning, oh, he's working right now. So he's the creator and writer on, one of the writers on the TV series, The Good Fight. Okay, so yes, we got a writer director here. So we're circling right back. to phil alden robinson

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who

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yes and a couple of these credits you know he did some like writing directing work on other projects so he also directed in the mood as well as sneakers but he directed the sum of all fears that

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was a um i don't know how i feel about that movie because that was like the jack ryan but then affleck yes is jack ryan yeah yeah it's all right

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didn't really go far i mean now we've had several iterations so first it was alec baldwin Yeah,

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now Jim Halpert has been like the longest running Jack Ryan.

SPEAKER_04:

Really? Longer than Harrison Ford?

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Well, when you consider all the episodes and seasons

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and stuff. That's true, yeah. So it's been Alec Baldwin, Harrison Ford, Ben Affleck, and now Jim Halpert.

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Sorry. Okay,

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so, and then yes, of course he, well, so The Good Fight was a spinoff of The Good Wife.

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Yeah.

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And so that's where the connection is, and he did direct on that as well. Okay, moving on to cinematography. Yeah, I think he has a little bit of a relationship with Robinson, John Lindley, because there are a couple of repeating credits that we're about to bring up. But yeah, he's got some well-known films. Well, films in his early work, and then it seems like in his later career, TV. Okay. So some of his early work, he makes me feel like dancing. I like that. That's good.

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That's a good feeling.

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And a lot of range here. So he does films like he shoots The Serpent and the Rainbow. Oh,

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that was a weird movie.

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As well as Sleeping with the Enemy.

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That movie is like iconic for like anytime you see what could be like a dangerous relationship, you always just say, oh, are they sleeping with the enemy?

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Is that really what people say?

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Yeah.

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Really? Okay.

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I wouldn't make that up.

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But then he also shoots Father of the Bride, the Steve Martin version. Oh,

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okay.

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So he flips from pretty serious, dramatic fare to comedy. And so here's what I was talking about. So he shot Sneakers with Robinson. So did that. He did The Good Son, Pleasantville. Again, guys got range. You've got mail. He also shot The Sum of All Fears. So did that one. Legion, St. Vincent, and now here's the TV work that I was talking

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about. Legion, the TV show? No, film. Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Honestly, has done a lot of TV work, but some of his more notable TV series, Snowfall, Divorce, which I liked that show, and it was too short, and Your Honor. So there you go. Well done. Well done. So this is maybe the first time We've had a couple instances where we've returned to composers in pretty quick succession. Like maybe there's an episode in between. I feel like we've done that with Jerry Goldsmith.

SPEAKER_05:

But now we get to talk again about the guy who made the best theme song for the best Star Trek.

SPEAKER_04:

James Horner. That's right. Yeah. So we did just cover him in our previous episode for Star Trek II. the Rathacon. So definitely encourage you to go back there. He made,

SPEAKER_05:

he's made so many great decisions in his, you know, just his career and his life. I mean, and among those, he started his education at USC, but then proceeded to get his master's and PhD at UCLA. So obviously just a brilliant, brilliant guy.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. So the reason why now, normally I would kind of do like a real quick run through if we brought someone up previously,

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but it was what it It was literally the last.

SPEAKER_04:

It was. Here's the reason why I'm breaking my own rule. Just because he's no longer with us and I feel like it's such a tragedy that he passed as early as he did. I'm going to go through everything again. Let's do it. And also, for that matter, he got an Oscar nomination for this score. Yeah. So, best original score Oscar nom for Field of Dreams. Okay. So, some of his other work, the aforementioned Star Trek II, The Wrath the con 48 hours another 48 hours they use his score or maybe he was more actively involved with Star Trek 3 the search for Spock he does cocoon the journey of Natty Gann commando

SPEAKER_05:

gets commando the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie yeah amazing

SPEAKER_04:

yeah his first so I know we talked about this at length in the previous episode his first Oscar nom was for the film aliens which had a connection to Because he kind of ripped off his own work.

SPEAKER_05:

Can't steal from yourself, so it's all

SPEAKER_04:

good. Yeah, sure. I don't have a problem with it. Gets another Oscar nom, this time for original song on An American Tale. He also does An American Tale, Five Old Ghost West. Batteries not included. Willow, which we must do. Actually, I mean, all these films qualify. What year was

SPEAKER_05:

Batteries Not Included made?

SPEAKER_04:

In the 80s. Was it? I don't know the exact year, but that also qualifies. But for sure, I want to do Willow. How about you? Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Glory. I talked about how that movie makes me weep.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, when we cover that one, I am for sure going to find whatever clip it is so that we're going to have to do the intro like 10 different times before I can finally get it started without you crying.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

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That's my goal.

SPEAKER_04:

Back to the Jack Ryan universe. He did the score for Patriot Games and Clear and Present Danger. One of my guilty pleasures, A Far Off Place. It's so good. Legends of the Fall, which is... Those are different

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movies?

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Yes.

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Oh.

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I think you said that last time. You know, I'm actually kind of surprised he didn't get an Oscar nom at least for Legends of the Fall because that is a pretty iconic score. It's beautiful.

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That whole movie is more dramatic than Ricardo Montalban

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in Star Trek 2. It is a very dramatic movie. And that's a high

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bar.

SPEAKER_04:

It's kind of insane. I'm kind of like, who thought it would be a good idea to have this one woman have like romantic relationships with

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three brothers. Yeah.

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It's kind of

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ick. Just your classic love rectangle.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Anyway. Now a lot more Oscar nominations and a couple wins coming down the pipeline for him. He gets Oscar noms for original score for both Braveheart and Apollo 13 which I just had on before we started recording this. He finally gets his wins. He finally gets both original score and original song for of course titanic

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oh okay

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gets i mean those were

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those were good but when i think of like his his like uh filmography

SPEAKER_04:

sure but it's like it's obviously he was gonna win for titanic i mean i feel like the soundtrack for that film was just as popular as the film itself

SPEAKER_05:

yeah and now my heart goes on or my heart will go out it's like now stuck in my

SPEAKER_04:

brain just from thinking have it somewhere in this house um okay more oscar noms. He gets original score nominations for A Beautiful Mind, House of Sand and Fog. His last Oscar nomination, again for original score, was for Avatar. And before he passed, he did both The Amazing Spider-Man and The Magnificent Seven.

SPEAKER_05:

All right. The Amazing Spider-Man, the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man. Got it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Okay. Film editing. Ian, not Crawford, but Crawford. Crawford. Yeah, two Fs, not a W.

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No W.

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No W. So yeah, we have some familiar credits for sure for Ian. Some of these titles in the beginning of his career, they're pretty fun. The first one I have is The Medusa Touch. Famously, she never really

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had the touch.

UNKNOWN:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

SPEAKER_04:

Which is why that's a fun title. Which I don't, you know what? Let me touch

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you with my vision. I

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haven't revisited my mythology in quite a while, but I don't know off the top of my head if there is, like, of course, you're not, you're never supposed to look at Medusa. But if you didn't look at Medusa, but she touched you, would anything happen? I don't know. I

SPEAKER_05:

mean, from watching the 80s Clash of the Titans, I think she would just use, like, her snakes, the snakes in her hair. Like, she would just. She's just like, lean into you with her head. Lean in, let her, like, her luscious locks bite you.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, that was an interesting, look, the snake hair, I think, is canon for Medusa. But what they did with giving her, like, a snake lower half of her body, I don't, again, I don't remember if that's, like, supposed to be her thing. Yeah,

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I don't, I don't know if, like, having

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Rocky's coach. I remember her being scary as fuck when I was a kid. Yeah. I actually was very scared of her in that movie

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is Rocky's coach kind of being like the liaison for Perseus is that canon was that I don't know like I think in mythology he went on to train a

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, I see the joke you're attempting there. It wasn't that

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good. It wasn't, so I appreciate the laughter.

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Moving on, Ian. So some of his other credits, he cut Still Smokin'.

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Oh, that was the sequel to, well, one of the Cheech and Chong sequels.

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I'm assuming so, yeah. Never Say Never Again.

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One of the more interesting James Bond movies because it was after Sean Connery had said he would never be Bond again. I

SPEAKER_04:

mean, isn't that the joke the title yeah yeah where the heart the 1990 where the heart is there's actually multiple films with that title thunder heart great movie the crush which that is a very fun campy yeah yeah we need to yeah i need to i haven't watched that in a while uh he cut indian in the cupboard now here's what's funny i just got done saying oh there's multiple films called where the heart is he's cut two of them wow so he he cut the 1990 where the heart And they're not, it's not the same story. And then he cut the 2000, which we own, where the heart is. Isn't that fun? I

SPEAKER_05:

don't know if you had to call that out, but yeah. What do you mean? What

SPEAKER_04:

do you mean not call it out? That's a really wild, fun fact. Like, not many people. Oh, no, no. I

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just mean the part we were like, oh, that one.

SPEAKER_04:

It's fine. I am not ashamed. His last credit, he's no longer with us, was 2000 All right. Okay, we are at the stars of the film. Of course, we begin with Ray Kinsella, played by... Mr.

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Kevin Costner.

SPEAKER_04:

There you go. Thank you for... I

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mean, if it's a baseball movie that we're covering, I could just say Kevin Costner, and I have like an 85% chance of it being right.

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The other day I was switching channels, and they had, oh my gosh, what's the one where he's like...

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Bull Durham, For the Love of the Game? For the Love of the Game. Of

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course I would know Bull Durham, but for Love of the Game, I sometimes blank on. Okay, Kevin Costner. It's been a while since we've talked about him. I think the last time was for The Untouchables. Yeah, I think so. Which

SPEAKER_05:

was also the first time, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I mean, he's...

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He was in something, but not really.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, we... Well, okay, I should clarify. When I say it's been a while, it actually hasn't. We did bring him up earlier this But in terms of like really going down his filmography, it's been a while. So The Untouchables was the last time that he was truly highlighted. That was, I think, our season opener for season three. So definitely go back to that episode. Check that one out. However, and it's the first credit I have for him. This was so early in his career. We brought him up for Night Shift. Oh, that's it. That's it. Earlier this year. So go back to that one. Where he

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famously was frat boy number one.

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Exactly. Yeah. I don't think he has any dialogue.

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No, I don't

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think so. but he's so recognizable that it's like well that's obviously him uh and then he had it's funny because he has another kind of pseudo credit so technically he's in the big chill so the big chill centers around this group of friends who i think have kind of lost touch with each other one of them takes their own life that's him

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oh okay

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um and he doesn't really appear in the film

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they have like flashbacks of him or anything

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or he was supposed to be more so in the movie and they cut his scenes because he wasn't he wasn't kevin costner yet so i mean he was but not the kevin costner we've come to know and love okay so moving on he is in the film fandango silverado he's pretty

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good in silverado

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he's pretty good in the untouchables no way out for sure for sure for sure we are going to do bill durham at some point uh that's probably my favorite of his films

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I'm

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trying to think

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here. I can't recall him in Amazing Stories, but he's in an episode of that. And he's also in a couple other movies that I think.

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Oh, yeah. I'm not done yet.

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American Flyers. Far from. Hey,

SPEAKER_04:

get ahead of me. I was going chronologically. I don't. I didn't put that one down. Yeah. He has a pretty extensive filmography. He does. You got to make some hard choices here. So the next one I was going to bring up was like kind of his, you know, achieving peak auteur status with. Oh, I definitely

SPEAKER_05:

thought you were going to say Waterworld. Oh, Derek.

SPEAKER_04:

So he gets a Best Actor nomination for that. But then, of course, that film wins. It wins Best Picture. And for it, because he also directed it, that year came up big. He won Best Director and won Best Picture because he was also a producer on it. Yeah, so that was big time for him. That was all the way back in the 1990s. So it's been a minute, but he's continued to obviously work. I know there's all this conversation about the fact that he's leaving Yellowstone. But in between then and now, some other credits to bring up. We just had Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves on last night.

SPEAKER_05:

Wow, he was weird.

SPEAKER_04:

We didn't keep it on, but we had it on. JFK, The Bodyguard, of course, his film with Whitney Houston. Wyatt Earp, your mention, Waterworld. Mm-hmm. Which, this has nothing to do, like, Kevin Costner has no input, I'm sure, on the ride, so to speak, or the attraction, I should say. Well, it's like a live show. Yeah, live show. Live

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stunt show that they do at Universal Studios Hollywood.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm sorry, but they really need to rework the way that they get people into that stadium. You were corralled into that area. You're literally cattle.

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Yeah.

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Literally cattle.

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It was uncomfortable.

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It was not fun.

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Okay.

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Tin Cup, the postman. Here we go for the love of the game. He has these really clear like kind of wheelhouses or, you know, he has like a niche for either baseball or like Westerns. He has a very kind of Americana type vibe to him. That's yeah.

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I feel like he's been in roles that go beyond that. And it's like, for sure, just go back to the.

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, he's he's good in 13 Days. He was in the miniseries Hatfield and the McCoys. so yes honestly the overwhelming amount of credits I have for him are in the film world but as mentioned recently Yellowstone he also plays oh my gosh Clark Kent's dad what's Jonathan in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman Dawn of Justice I'm sorry but his death was like so dumb like to be like no you gotta let me die so people don't know that you're

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like there were maybe maybe they could just know there

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were like a million things that yeah that Clark could have done to save him and probably know because he's like

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he's almost as fast as the flash he could have just like hopped in grabbed him moved out

SPEAKER_04:

yeah no totally that's exactly what I'm saying so it's like a really dumb thing like he had like

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you know it was it was like almost unintentionally comedic when he's just like waving I

SPEAKER_04:

know bye but that's the whole point and like look I'm not even like really super super into this fan him but like that's the whole point of the canon of older versions of jonathan he dies by heart attack to show that as strong and as powerful as superman is there are some things he can't control that's the whole point yeah of why jonathan dies the way he does

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yeah i yeah i think it's more powerful when it's something that he simply like with all these powers he still couldn't save

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him exactly

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versus my identity is so like it's so important to keep it secret that i'm just gonna let my dad die right

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like i'd be like i don't fucking care who knows who I am I'm not going to let you die if I can prevent it and

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as like the fans are just watching the movie you're supposed to just like take it because you're like well he was going to die he's Jonathan Kent's going to

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die either way I don't like that choice that they

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made

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anyway moving

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on

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Hidden Figures he's good in Hidden Figures yeah Molly's Game and then again for like the 15th time bringing it up Yellowstone okay moving on to Amy Madigan so she plays Annie Kinsella she is Ray's wife she's fantastic in this film and I don't think she gets enough credit for it no I don't you don't I mean she she's a good actress just in general she has a much more abbreviated filmography like in comparison to someone like Kevin Costner yeah Kevin Costner um but she does have some other really great credits Places in the Heart Nowhere to Hide some people probably know her from Uncle Buck

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yeah

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that might be where a lot of people know her from isn't

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isn't she she's a uncle she's Buck's girlfriend right

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yeah yeah it's been a while since I've watched

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it it has been a while I'm like am I even using words correctly here's

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what's fun so she's in the film Pollock with her husband Ed Harris oh really yeah I don't think I knew that they're married well that's the whole like not controversy but like mystery of who does the voice wait a

SPEAKER_05:

second you're telling me that the that the rumor is that Ed Harris did it and you're also telling me that Ed Harris is married to the co-star of this movie

SPEAKER_04:

yes yeah that's what I'm saying and the director refuses to say who did it anyway

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he's saying yeah he said that like only he knows and that he's heard these like guesses and that they're not right which is exactly what I would say if I just didn't want

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people to know for sure unless he did it himself he's not the only one who knows because there'd be a least one other person who knows because they're the person who did it. And if anything, there's more than one person who knows because then you have all the recording engineers who had to be... There's more than one person who knows. People

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know. People most certainly know. Did you do it? No. I didn't do it. There's two.

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Okay. So moving on to some of her other work. More recently, TV. She was on the TV show Carnival. Isn't that how you say

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it?

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Say it again? Carnival. Yeah. I think you laugh at me every time I say that.

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Nailed it. Nailed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

She was in the film Gone Baby Gone, but she also more TV work, Grey's Anatomy, Fringe. Yeah, three episodes of Fringe. Nice. And we never watched this, but we loved the first iteration of it, Penny Dreadful City of Angels. Oh, yeah. The original Penny Dreadful was great until it wasn't.

SPEAKER_05:

First three seasons, but then the third season, I think, like... Is this going to end? Will there be another? Like, it just kind of, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I was really bummed with the, and I mean, like, the creator of the show kept saying, oh, no, this is, like, how I wanted it to go. Is it?

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Yeah.

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I don't know why he would try to save face in a certain way by saying that, but I was. It's

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exactly how he wanted it to go, and Ed Harris wasn't the voice

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in Field of Dreams. Man, the chemistry, though, between Josh Hartnett and Eva Green, whoo, off the charts.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, Hartnett. It was like the Wolfman, wasn't it? He was like a werewolf, wasn't he? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

They were amazing together. Anyway. All right. Moving on to Gabby Hoffman. So she plays Karen Kinsella. So she's a little girl. She's their daughter. Choking on hot dogs. Choking on hot dogs. She's had a great career. This was her first credit because she was just a kid. So she was quite young. But some of her other credits, she also was an Uncle Buck. Mm-hmm. Now, I feel like probably the... Well, kind of like... You got

SPEAKER_05:

to see her mom in Uncle Buck. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm having a hard time trying to suss out, did I see Feel the Dreams first or did I see Sleepless in Seattle? I might know her firstly from, she has a great, she has a little steel ceiling, scene stealing role. She has a steel ceiling? She's great in that movie. She is in Now and Then. I love the movie 200 Cigarettes. Hmm. Choices were made for her character. Yeah. I feel bad saying that, but I do love the movie, but she's probably my least favorite character in the entire movie. It's not her fault. I don't know. I don't know if the director's like, love what you're doing, or she's like, I'm just going to do what I want to do. I have no idea. Veronica Mars, the film, but also a lot of TV work more recently. She was on Girls. She's probably most well-known for Transparent Oh. As far as her TV work. And then also, I didn't realize this. She was on the TV series Winning Time, The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty.

SPEAKER_05:

Man, that show pissed off a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Okay. Moving on to Ray Liotta. So he plays Shoeless Joe Jackson. He is

SPEAKER_05:

amazing in this movie.

SPEAKER_04:

He is. And gosh, I'm kind of shocked that we have not really brought him up yet over the course of the podcast. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people were really surprised. I mean, he wasn't young as far as, like, he was, I think, in his 60s. But that feels young for him. It was surprising when he passed, yeah. Yeah, for him to have passed away. That really bummed me out. He was great. I mean, I will go through his, like, chronological filmography. Of course, I think 99% of people associate him with the film Goodfellas. Like, and he was amazing in that. But I like him better in this movie. For

SPEAKER_05:

sure. I mean, he doesn't get as much screen time, obviously. I could have

SPEAKER_04:

seen a whole movie of him because he's so, like, I don't know. He is magnetic in this film. It's a great performance. Great performance. So he started out in, like, the soap opera world. He was on Another World for a while. But mostly film work I have for him. Something wild. Wild, the aforementioned Goodfellas. I mean, he did have range. I think a lot of people kind of like wrapped him up in this like gangster type like wheelhouse. But he did do other types of films. He was in Carina Carina, Copland, which kind of goes back to like that same world. Muppets from Space.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, man, I love the Muppets from Space.

SPEAKER_04:

Probably his most... I don't know controversial but certainly gross and I just like won't watch this movie I think I watched the scene once I was like nope Hannibal oh you know what I'm talking about

SPEAKER_05:

with like the face

SPEAKER_04:

oh with the brain

SPEAKER_05:

oh oh yeah yeah

SPEAKER_04:

it's fine it I feel like that was like one of the most egregious examples of like doing something strictly for shock value

SPEAKER_05:

look I've seen bone tomahawk that that Hannibal scene wasn't wasn't nothing

SPEAKER_04:

I just was like kind of disappointed in the film I'm like really really we're gonna do this just to like like you're gonna get Anthony Hopkins and Ray Liotta and then the replaced Clary Starling oh did that happen yeah like like really we're gonna go down this path okay uh he's actually really fun in Heartbreakers I love that film yeah and he's he's real fun in that he's in Blow Identity The Place Beyond the Pines he also does Muppets Most Wanted he must have had a fun time yeah he likes He likes the Muppets. He likes the Muppets. Shades of Blue, which was a TV series. And then most recently, I guess his work on it had been completed before he passed, but the film hadn't been released yet. Cocaine Bear.

SPEAKER_05:

Cocaine Bear, which has both the best title and best movie poster for any, like literally any movies about cocaines and bears. This is a fun time. Did I say cocaines? I'm not even going to edit that out. Cocaines. The cocaines. You have a movie with the cocaines and a bear. You're probably watching Cocaine Bear.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, moving on to Mark. If you're like, who the hell is Mark? Mark is Andy's brother. So he's the one that keeps pushing them to sell because, yeah, he's not wrong. They're totally underwater. They cannot afford to keep the farm. It's going to be taken from them anyway. This character is played by Timothy Busfield. He's played by that

SPEAKER_05:

guy that was in 30 something

SPEAKER_04:

yeah but he's done so he does continue to act but he has largely pivoted into directing okay so he's he's behind the camera quite a bit but yeah uh we we still haven't done this film but we should soon his very first credit was stripes really yeah oh i think i i don't know if he has any uh lines but he's

SPEAKER_05:

in it i can think of

SPEAKER_04:

him i

SPEAKER_05:

think yeah

SPEAKER_04:

yeah so maybe people know him from his Early, early Award winning work In Revenge of the Nerds That's actually what I was

SPEAKER_05:

thinking of Okay, like yeah, I was thinking of his Poindexter? Poindexter's not in Stripes, come on What am I thinking?

SPEAKER_04:

And he also comes back for Revenge of the Nerds 2 Nerds in Paradise He Unlike most of the people that we've brought up so far I think he's more well known for his TV work You already brought up 30-something So he's in that He also was on Trapper John M.D He has done more film work. Actually, he was in Sneakers, so he reteams with Robinson, as well as Quiz Show. But yeah, I mean, the rest of the credits I have for him, West Wing, Studio 60 and The Sunset Strip, Designated Survivor, Almost Family, For Life, all TV work. All right. So, okay. Love this guy so much, James Earl Jones. He plays Terrence Mann, the sassy– He's kind of sassy in the beginning. Rightfully so. He is. Rightfully so to Ray. But he plays Terrence Mann, the author that Ray and Annie kind of idolize. And they get this chance to actually meet him. He had

SPEAKER_05:

a huge influence on their lives growing

SPEAKER_04:

up. Yeah. So we talked about him.

UNKNOWN:

Eh.

SPEAKER_05:

Coming to America?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. That's the last time that was actually like almost halfway through this season ago that was a very inelegant way of putting that that was um what our finale that was our finale of season three yeah so definitely go back to that one check that one out but yeah i think it's it's he's due for a revisit i'll go through the credits that i have here so his early work he is in dr strange love or how i learned to stop worrying and love the bomb he got an oscar nomination best actor oscar nom for the great white hope he was in claudine of course most of the star wars movies he is the voice of darth vader could not have been anyone else

SPEAKER_05:

right now if you go to his imdb page it just says darth vader voice uncredited

SPEAKER_04:

in the earlier films he's uncredited yeah yeah but of course he does a new hope he it's it's interesting for the ones that he's on. So I think it makes sense that he's on. Not that it should have been this way. He should have gotten the credit. I think that the role of voice actors wasn't recognized

SPEAKER_05:

in

SPEAKER_04:

the way that it is now. It's definitely all worked out. It all worked out. But he, sure. New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Revenge of the Jedi. That's the first of the original three that he gets a proper credit.

SPEAKER_05:

Interesting. Did you say Revenge of the Jedi? Oh my god, I

SPEAKER_04:

did. Because

SPEAKER_05:

that's what it was originally going yeah like that was an original title option they're like no jedis don't want revenge

SPEAKER_04:

the reason why i said that is because i have like the way i wrote everything out it's right next to revenge of the sith

SPEAKER_05:

yeah and so totally they love revenge

SPEAKER_04:

so sorry return of the jedi of course then revenge of the sith for which he is uncredited again well it

SPEAKER_05:

makes

SPEAKER_04:

sense um but he does get credits for rogue one a star wars story as well as the rise of skywalker and now and now he has like and i think we brought this up he has said i'm I'm retired. I'm not doing Vader anymore.

SPEAKER_05:

Where is he in The Rise of Skywalker? Just like his voice.

SPEAKER_04:

Probably his voice is there somewhere. Okay. More credits to go, of course. He is in your favorite film, Exorcist II, The Heretic. God damn it.

SPEAKER_05:

I hate that movie so much. I wish it did not exist. It was the worst thing to happen to the exercise. Exercise? The

SPEAKER_04:

exercise franchise.

SPEAKER_05:

So would I consolidate words it's like exorcist franchise becomes

SPEAKER_04:

the exercise actually that makes a lot of sense the way your brain just did that so but yeah that movie sucked the exercise franchise that's just how i'm gonna well it may have a run for its money because i'm not hearing great

SPEAKER_05:

things about the exorcist believer oh well i call me a believer because i i choose

SPEAKER_04:

to believe i want it to be good but i've heard that it people were like this sucks and like early screenings of it

SPEAKER_05:

yeah well What do those early screeners know?

SPEAKER_04:

Anyway, Conan the Barbarian. He is

SPEAKER_05:

cold as shit in that movie.

SPEAKER_04:

He's really good in that movie.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, he's a real bad guy.

SPEAKER_04:

Coming to America, which we mentioned. Three Fugitives. Back to the Jack Ryan franchise or universe. Yeah, he's really good in all

SPEAKER_05:

those, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Hunt for Red October. Patriot Games. Sorry, now I'm conflating titles. Clear and Present Danger. So he's in all of those. He does sneak in there some TV work. He was on a TV show. show called Gabriel's Fire. there's no one else who could do this voice either. And so they bring him back for the 2019 Lion King. That's the credit that I almost brought up a second ago. Cry the Beloved Country. Oh, okay. And then Coming 2, numeral 2, America, which is fun. It's, you know, we watched it. It was, it was okay. And then he did come back. I have it separate because it's a TV credit, but of course he was Vader in Obi-Wan Kenobi, the

SPEAKER_05:

miniseries. That was that was like his last stint as Vader right correct

SPEAKER_04:

okay coming to the gentleman that we have already made quite obvious that we both love in this film Burt Lancaster he is Dr. Moonlight Graham

SPEAKER_05:

yeah he I mean he he

SPEAKER_04:

just

SPEAKER_05:

he went like so into this

SPEAKER_04:

for like you could just I hope see how much fun he had

SPEAKER_05:

yeah

SPEAKER_04:

in this role and I just adore him like I can recognize that Lancaster was because he's no longer with us but he was a phenomenal actor I never really gravitated towards most of his work like I know he's great and from here in eternity and he is an Oscar winner he and I actually do like him I'll get to all these credits in Elmer Gantry it's a really like kind of ahead of its time type of film but this is this is the role where I'm like oh my god I love this actor like he just he's amazing in it he brings this like he brings a gravitas because he is this like crazy established iconic actor but then he's he plays it so light and he just has so much fun with it and yeah all these side characters that's when you know you've seen like a great film because all these like Ray is the main character but when you have all these other characters surrounding him you're like man I wish I could just see a movie about that character like yeah

SPEAKER_05:

definitely

SPEAKER_04:

so and he's one of them okay so he comes out the gate pretty This isn't necessarily like his first credit, but he does very early in his career get a Best Actor Oscar nomination for, mentioned it from here to eternity. It was like back in 1953. He was in the gunfight or just gunfight at the OK Corral. He does get his Oscar win, his only win for Elmer Gantry, which may be pretty off the radar for a lot of people. Really encourage everyone. I watched it in film school and I remember thinking like, what the fuck are they making us watch? And it was really good. It's a really, really good movie. He was in Judgment at Nuremberg. He gets another Oscar nomination for Birdman of Alcatraz. He's in Airport. He was on Sesame Street. I had to put that on. He came back to Sesame Street several times, so added that one. He was in the 1977 The Island of Dr. Moreau.

SPEAKER_05:

Is there a better version of that? Because that would have to be it right

SPEAKER_04:

you're are you doing some split shading to the uh marlon brando

SPEAKER_05:

as much as i possibly can

SPEAKER_04:

he gets his last oscar nomination for atlantic city and then one of his last credits was tough guys which

SPEAKER_05:

which is the only other movie that i've seen him in oh

SPEAKER_04:

okay which is

SPEAKER_05:

like a fun movie

SPEAKER_04:

yeah he's so he and kirk douglas were like best friends throughout their entire lives So I think that that was another- Kirk

SPEAKER_05:

Douglas. The actual Kirk Douglas.

SPEAKER_04:

The

SPEAKER_05:

actual Kirk

SPEAKER_04:

Douglas. Yes. Not Kurt Russell.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, yeah. Man, I've made that mistake so many times.

SPEAKER_04:

So yeah, I haven't seen that, but I've heard it's fun because they're just having fun.

SPEAKER_05:

They're like old robbery guys robbing a train.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, moving on to Frank Whaley. So he plays the younger version of the same character, and he's known as Archie Graham. So he hasn't quite gotten his nicknames yet of Moonlight and he hasn't gotten his title of doctor he

SPEAKER_05:

hasn't even gone to med school

SPEAKER_04:

hasn't even gone to med school so Frank Whaley I think he's one of those faces you're like oh yeah I know that guy oh yeah he's kind of one of those actors

SPEAKER_05:

what say what again he's it that's him he's the person that Samuel Jackson says say

SPEAKER_04:

what again you're right I wasn't you know the role I'm thinking of a lot is swimming with sharks

SPEAKER_05:

yeah

SPEAKER_04:

yeah yeah but yeah he is very much a working actor today. So among his credits, I have mostly film. Iron Weed, Little Monsters, which I would love to cover that one at some point. He's in Born on the Fourth of July. That's another one we could do.

SPEAKER_05:

Fun movie. Good. Just feel good movie. That one is.

SPEAKER_04:

The Freshman, The Doors. Okay. Career Opportunities. Some people might know him from Swing Kids. I feel like that hit a particular generation. I know that was very popular. Pulp Fiction. That's the one. That's the one. That's probably like you just mentioned where other people know him from. I know him primarily from Swimming with Sharks.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

IQ, Broken Arrow, and here's some of his TV work. He was on the show Buddy Pharaoh as well as The Dead Zone. He did the film World Trade Center. He also was on the show Ray Donovan, Hustlers, and BitCon.

SPEAKER_05:

What was that last one?

SPEAKER_04:

Not Bitcoin. Bitcoin. It's not a typo. BitCon.

SPEAKER_05:

Kind of sounds like the same thing. Damn.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you for that shout out. I

SPEAKER_04:

appreciate it. Last credit to go through. Dwyer Brown. Of course we have to put him in here. He is Ray's father, John Casella. It'd

SPEAKER_05:

be

SPEAKER_04:

kind of messed

SPEAKER_05:

up to...

SPEAKER_04:

That would be rude to not include him. So he also very much a working actor. Not quite the breadth of some of the other people that we've mentioned so far, but some really high profile credits to his name so he was in that miniseries I feel like this just keeps coming up somehow the Thorn Birds

SPEAKER_05:

well I'm not surprised because as we have definitely said that those series just crushed it

SPEAKER_04:

80s miniseries were like

SPEAKER_05:

they were events

SPEAKER_04:

events yeah yeah he was in the horror film House and he comes back for House 2 the second story which I just fucking love that so much

SPEAKER_05:

House 3 there is a third story

SPEAKER_04:

there it Talk about clever. Yeah. The second story on so many levels. It's amazing. Okay. He was in To Live and Die in L.A., The Cutting Edge,

SPEAKER_05:

which... Oh, the... Yeah. I'm a hockey player. I'm a figure skater.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Let's get together. He's in Gettysburg, the film. He did have a stint on the TV show ER. He was in the film Red Dragon. And then more recently... the TV show Rizzoli and Isles.

SPEAKER_05:

And he was in one episode of Quantum Leap. Okay. I

SPEAKER_04:

knew that you were either going to say Quantum Leap or Supernatural.

SPEAKER_05:

Is he in an episode of Supernatural? No.

SPEAKER_04:

But when you go, and I always know, okay, he's about to. And

SPEAKER_05:

there's

SPEAKER_04:

one more thing. Or I guess sometimes you've done it for The Office, I want to say. Maybe. Okay. Films What

SPEAKER_05:

do

SPEAKER_04:

we got? Sure. It's not a synopsis. No. No, not really. It's more so like an extended, not even a tagline, but like a synopsis is supposed to actually kind of tell you what happens. Like this is just really the concept for the film

SPEAKER_05:

okay

SPEAKER_04:

um and it's also very long but it's yeah but hey

SPEAKER_05:

they give his wife some credit

SPEAKER_04:

they do and i like that yeah yeah i'm glad that they give some give some credit to the wife yeah on that note let's get into it with our wonderful returning guest daniel

SPEAKER_05:

let's do it

SPEAKER_04:

All right. We are so very, very excited to have back on the show this special guest. He is a phenomenal guest, but also he's just a phenomenal person. It's true. We

SPEAKER_03:

love him so much. We do.

SPEAKER_04:

We really do. So it's always super special to have him on the show. He first was on the show with us, gosh, all the way back in season one. 20

SPEAKER_05:

years ago.

SPEAKER_04:

So that was for E.T., the extraterrestrial. And then what was super interesting is that– so we had a little bit of a pause. He came back two years later. But when he did come back, which was just last year for I think one of the first couple episodes of our Halloween series, we covered Poltergeist, which often there's kind of a comparison between those two. So we highly encourage all of our listeners to check out both of those episodes. But today– Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

If you like what you're hearing now– Then just think about how much you're going to love those other episodes.

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely. And today we have you, Daniel Strange, back on the show to talk about, I think, the most perfect summer movie, Field of Dreams. And to give you a little background, everyone on Daniel, he is a director, writer, editor. He is part of the winning team for the 2023 Fangoria Jazz. chainsaw award because he was the editor on the 101 scariest horror movie moments of all time all

SPEAKER_06:

time

SPEAKER_04:

i think actually the last time you were on the show daniel we were talking about the fact that that was coming out um yeah so everybody go check that out too i'm sure there are ways to to get it i'm assuming

SPEAKER_02:

that's on the shutter streaming platform

SPEAKER_04:

i thought so yeah yeah that makes all the sense in the world that definitely sounds shuddery so Daniel, welcome back.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Thank you for having me here in the virtual space.

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely. And I know that there were a couple options that we had for having you back on the show as far as movies are concerned. But I was super excited about this one that you brought up because it is a film that I just happened to love. I think if I could speak for you, Derek, you love this movie too.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Yeah. This movie is great. The good thing about watching it for this podcast is that I've missed apparently the beginning of the movie for like the last 10 years because I like watching it from the start. I'm like, oh, yeah, this is good. Good background.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So it was really fun to rewatch it in its entirety. And as I do, Daniel, just curious, do you have any first memories or recollections of when you saw this movie and what maybe you thought about it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, a little bit. This is going to kind of be a replay of the two other times I've been on the show. You'll see a recurring theme. I didn't actually see this movie in the theater. Somehow or other, there was a videotape of it in our house. And being the obsessive kind of film nerd that I am, there was a lot of watching re-watching rewinding watching it fast forward watching it backwards and just sort of trying to understand how this movie worked so my big memory of watching this movie was that I would always I'd always rewind at the part where he where Doc Moonlight Graham steps off of the field because I was like how how, how it's, it's so perfectly done. I was like, you know, what, how did they do this? And I watching it again last night, I was like, Oh, it's just, it's just a simple dissolve, but because the camera is locked down and because they knew where the guy's shoe was and they moved at the right time, it just happens to work perfectly.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

That's

SPEAKER_04:

really interesting. So that's one of your first horror memories? That was what I

SPEAKER_02:

was flashing back on. Okay. Yeah. Just trying to understand. And also sort of the structure, which we've talked about before, is a big thing for me. You know, you've got these three sort of mystical instructions. And... when I think about the movie or I should say when people think about the movie I suspect that probably it's like oh those are the three things that make the movie go but those three things are actually kind of out of the way by the halfway mark of the film and yet the movie keeps going and I remember as a kid trying to understand how that worked and the whole section where they go to find Burt Lancaster and all that and yes So structurally, that was the thing that I remember about my original viewings of it was just trying to understand how this story was so good at being this story.

SPEAKER_04:

Just out of curiosity, had you ever read– I haven't. I don't think you have either, Derek.

SPEAKER_05:

I've not read the book,

SPEAKER_04:

no. Yeah, there's like a short story and then I think the short story became a book.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh, a real–

SPEAKER_04:

okay. Yeah, both in the same writer. But have you read either of those, Daniel?

SPEAKER_02:

On the Libby app, which I recommend to anybody who doesn't have it because it's basically the library, I downloaded a sample of the book and I read read a little bit and it's uh it's pretty good

SPEAKER_05:

you read a little bit so a portion of the sample of

SPEAKER_02:

yes that is

SPEAKER_05:

correct nice

SPEAKER_04:

well that that's why I was curious because um not knowing what the book contains I was wondering too about how faithful the film was and I imagine that in okay so this is gonna be a weird kind of through line But I imagine that there might have been a difficulty in the same way that a lot of people seem to have difficulty adapting Stephen King books, because it felt like there were elements to the story that just would have been hard to translate visually. And those images, especially like you were saying, Derek, for some reason, we always kind of like find ourselves watching the film after the first third is over. Yeah,

SPEAKER_05:

yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so those first images, like when Ray is first out in the field and he's seeing like he's hearing the voice he gets the vision of the baseball field yeah the vision and even the vision of Shoeless Joe I was curious how if that's something that they came up on their own how that might have been described in the book

SPEAKER_02:

well that did happen to be in the portion of the sample of the redacted thing that I read the In the book, it's described very succinctly. There's an economy of language, and he powers through the story real fast. Sort of by the end of... I guess we're maybe about half an hour, 40 minutes into the movie before he takes off to go, um, meet James Earl Jones. But in the, in this, in the section of the book that I read, we're, we were coming up on that pretty quick. And it was like, I don't know, seven to eight, nine, 10 pages. Like it wasn't a lot. He, he sort of rockets through everything, which makes me curious. How long is that book? And what else happens in it but to your specific point He says something along the lines of, I heard the voice and in an instant I saw everything. You know what? I could just bop it out and read it. Okay, here we go. Three years ago at dusk on a spring evening when the sky was a robin's egg blue and the wind as soft as a day old chick, I was sitting on the veranda of my farm home in eastern Iowa when a voice very clearly said to me, if you build it, he will come. The voice was that of a ballpark announcer. As he spoke, I instantly envisioned the finished product I knew I was being asked to conceive. I could see the dark, squarish speakers like ancient sailors' hats attached to aluminum-painted light standards that glowed down into a baseball field, my present position being directly behind home plate.

SPEAKER_04:

That's really interesting. Especially the note that the voice was distinctly a baseball announcer.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

That's a market difference.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Because... You can see why they would change it for the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Yep. Absolutely. That's really interesting. Yeah. And you're right. That was all relayed in a very concise manner.

SPEAKER_02:

Super, super concise.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean... So, sorry, I don't know why this sparked for me while you were saying that, but the fact that, like, and look, there's, I think people know at this point that this podcast is all about spoilers and we kind of jump around. I

SPEAKER_05:

hope everyone realizes at this point that none of us are worried about spoiling movies from the 80s.

SPEAKER_04:

No, no, not at all. The whole, you know, obviously at the end of the film, Ray realized we realize that this was all about reconnecting him to his father who had passed. The fact that the film opens, you know, you mentioned structure a couple minutes ago, and I don't know if we have brought up with you yet, Daniel, what your thoughts are on the type of films where there's a lot of exposition. Oh, the intro? Yes. Yeah. Where Ray is giving a full rundown of his dad's life, his relationship with his dad, what his life was like post his father's passing to bring us up to the present day. I'm just curious how that works for you, if it does work for you.

SPEAKER_02:

It did. Well, it definitely worked for me in Field of Dreams because it's really nicely written. And when I was reading this sample from Libby, one of the things that was clear to me was that the screenwriter had a really strong base to work from when he wrote his version of that sort of intro, because in the book, it's a longer sort of explanation of his dad and his dad's life. And I could see that the screenwriter was cherry picking sort of the best lines. And so when you're watching the movie, you're getting information, but it's delivered in a really nicely written way. Like the one line that's jumped out at me as we were watching it last night was he's talking about how his dad died a little when the Sox lost the series and then he died a lot when he found out that they had thrown the game. It's just really good writing. So I liked it. I liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_04:

that makes sense I mean yeah if it's if it's done well and honestly I I get it that the choice was made to have the film cover a really kind of finite chain of events and if you had started with Ray as a child or even his father and his younger like it would have been a totally different movie so that was not going to happen anyway it's just that always kind of stands out to me I feel because I'm trying to think of more recent films where I feel like that has become something that people try to stay away from. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, because I think it's seen as lazy or just poor storytelling. Yeah, or like a fix. Yes, exactly. You don't know how else to tell the story, so you're just pumping through a ton of exposition.

SPEAKER_05:

We have this whole story to tell, and this is an important part of it, but it's not... quote unquote the story but if we don't tell this to you somehow the rest of the real story isn't going to make as much sense it's not going to have the same impact so we got to get it in there somehow

SPEAKER_04:

you have to set up that there is this estrangement between Ray and his father before he died but

SPEAKER_05:

I definitely have no interest in seeing like young Ray and his dad you know I wouldn't need a prequel I wouldn't need a prequel of a field of dreams where it's like fields of sadness where it's like now I get to see their lives fall apart and then I can move on to the you know feel the dreams

SPEAKER_03:

no yeah well I think

SPEAKER_02:

y'all may remember that my great obsession is the five act structure

SPEAKER_03:

yeah

SPEAKER_02:

which I'm pleased to report feel the dreams feel the dreams nails it but with the caveat that the minute and a half of flashback stuff at the beginning

SPEAKER_06:

must

SPEAKER_02:

be considered a prologue it's okay It's a little bit of a, which is how I took it. I took it as, you know, you're going to get a taste of some of this stuff, but then some more detail will be revealed later. Like for instance, when he's on his road trip with Terrence Mann and he says, you know, I called Shoeless Joe a criminal. And you realize the extent of the insult, you know, and why they grew up, you know, what it was that broke the them apart and Terrence Mann says oh this is your penance you know you get additional detail filled in later but there in the prologue you get the little the 50,000 foot view which I like

SPEAKER_05:

what did he say to his dad he couldn't respect anyone whose hero was a criminal yeah

SPEAKER_04:

which so I'm curious okay so not to not to put you on the spot here Daniel but would you say that you are a fan of baseball is it something that you feel you have a background in or knowledge of?

SPEAKER_02:

I played Little League as a kid. It's America's sport. I have some familiar... I've been to some Dodger games. I've been to some Red Sox games.

SPEAKER_04:

And

SPEAKER_02:

again, that's not to put you on the spot. I know y'all are sports fans. Sure. I feel very on the spot, so I'm going to go.

SPEAKER_04:

The only reason why I ask is because kind of in, in the like minutia, you already brought up how for Ray's father died a little when the socks lost died a lot with the cheating scandal coming out between that and the impact of what that would mean for somebody who say is like, you know, a rabid baseball fan. And then the rest of the movie that follows and just it, you know, especially like, When it all kind of gets sums up in Terrence Mann's speech right before he walks off the field with the players about what baseball means, for someone who doesn't maybe have that kind of background in baseball or those feelings about baseball, do you think that this film could still be enjoyed as much?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, one of the many reasons that it's a great film is because the film teaches you why baseball baseball is important so that by the end when you get that speech you know you've you've been living in that world and viewing everything through that context so you're like yeah yeah you go James Earl Jones

SPEAKER_05:

the first time I saw this was in the theater with my dad and I at that at that age I was not a sports fan really like I like basketball hockey maybe but I wasn't a big baseball fan at all and I feel like if anything this movie made me appreciate it more

SPEAKER_04:

You brought up a really astute point, Daniel, and I never thought about it this way, that the film does teach you about why baseball is what it is to so many people. That's a really good point. It's all

SPEAKER_05:

because of

SPEAKER_04:

the

SPEAKER_05:

thrill of the grass.

SPEAKER_04:

The smell

SPEAKER_02:

of the catcher's mitt.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. No, that makes a lot of sense of why there could be

SPEAKER_05:

appreciation for it. Did you ever take a glove and just stick it in your face? Pretty sure that I

SPEAKER_04:

mean, I, I actually have done. Yeah. I've been, I've actually done that. Um, everybody

SPEAKER_05:

has, that's the first thing you do.

SPEAKER_02:

You're like,

SPEAKER_04:

yeah, well, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's a really, it's a, it's a beautiful piece of writing because as you say, Derek, everyone has done that. And so everyone, when you hear that line, you, you're like, Oh, let me call up that sense memory of inhaling a glove. And now you're, you're part of it. You got, you got suckered in a little bit. into the movie and the movie just keeps doing that throughout so it's really

SPEAKER_05:

good one of the things that really like gets me every time and it's like probably a weird thing but the sound of like the grass the sound of them like just like even jogging running through the grass and just hearing like that crunch that I feel like they probably spent a lot of time on trying to get that just right sound

SPEAKER_04:

design's

SPEAKER_05:

great yeah

SPEAKER_02:

the sound that got me was when the first time Shoeless Joe shows up and he's hitting balls to him. Just hearing the crack of the wooden bat against the ball. It's not an aluminum bat. It's a wooden one. Not

SPEAKER_05:

that bullshit college aluminum bat thing. That's right.

SPEAKER_02:

But it's such a pleasing sound. It's such a natural sound. I

SPEAKER_04:

liked it. it does feel like I feel like of maybe any of the major like the major sports baseball is a game where you can come and fully enjoy yourself even if you you know you don't know stats you don't know players like it is truly it's a

SPEAKER_05:

different kind of experience

SPEAKER_04:

yeah I mean that's why like people like like we're we are in a slight hiatus from it but why Derek and I are hitting all the different baseball stadiums across the US and then we got to also hit Toronto, but because of just the ambiance, the experience of it.

SPEAKER_02:

I agree. You couldn't pay me to watch a baseball game on TV, but I love going to the stadium and sitting there and being in it. And there's always something that happens to me when I'm watching a game in the stadium, which is that at a certain point you start to feel what's happening. And it's almost like I don't want to claim I'm psychic or anything, but you can tell when something's going to happen. There's like a tension that starts to build. And you're like, oh, this is... Either they're going to hit the home run now or they're going to strike out and then the game's going to be over, even though there's a couple innings. You can just sort of feel... the narrative of the game. Do you guys feel that way?

SPEAKER_04:

Absolutely. Yeah. And you're certainly not the first person to say like, oh, I can't stand watching baseball on television, but I love going to games. I completely understand why. And it is because like you know, as somebody who does take an interest in baseball, there have been moments that I've watched on television where I can kind of still feel that energy coming through. But for sure, when you're in a there's just like this kind of kinetic type of energy that happens where, yeah, it's not, it's not that anybody's psychic, but you can kind of just tell that, you know,

SPEAKER_05:

and also being at a stadium, you're, you're probably, well, you, you just are getting a very different perspective of the game. I mean, chances are you go see a basketball game, you're going to be sitting and getting a view that looks better, but it's going to be like a similar perspective of the action. Whereas like when you watch a baseball game on TV you kind of get that like kind of boring view from the perspective behind the pitcher and then you're missing everything that's happening in the outfield everything that's happening anywhere else in the stadium so you're just focused on like the pitch and the batter and so like being there and like seeing the outfielders kind of like shifting so like seeing everything happen is just a different experience and I think that contributes to like you see all these moving pieces kind of coalesce when something is about to happen and you do like there you kind of sense that something might happen and then usually because yeah you're right rooting for it doesn't and then i'm just

SPEAKER_04:

if it's the tigers if it's the tigers

SPEAKER_05:

you're like oh it'd be great if something happened now i feel it nope didn't that wasn't it nope didn't

SPEAKER_02:

happen yeah yeah so but so well this is good i'm glad that y'all brought this up because y'all are much much bigger baseball fans so I should actually be asking you, as people who love baseball, is this like the greatest movie of all time? Because it already kind of is, even if you don't.

SPEAKER_04:

I would say it's definitely– well, I was about to say like the definitive baseball movie. I think I would still lean into that. I mean you do have like Pride of the Yankees. Like you do have other movies out there. Even another Kevin Costner movie like

SPEAKER_02:

Bull Durham. For the love

SPEAKER_04:

of the game. Yeah. He has like his own trilogy of baseball movies. He

SPEAKER_02:

does. One month Sarah and I decided that the only movies we were going to watch that month were Kevin costner sports movies and we okay we did the entire it was a whole month's worth of movies

SPEAKER_04:

what does he have

SPEAKER_05:

my underappreciated film in that in that uh group would be tin cup oh sure

SPEAKER_02:

tin cup yeah tin cup the golf movie there's also american flyers which is the bicycling

SPEAKER_05:

movies

SPEAKER_02:

okay there's draft day which is the football movie

SPEAKER_05:

wow

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Drafting, pretty underrated. Pretty underrated.

SPEAKER_04:

That, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I

SPEAKER_04:

immediately associate him with strictly baseball, but you're absolutely right. There are, yeah, he's a really interesting cinematic figure. What's interesting?

SPEAKER_02:

He is. Huge fan.

SPEAKER_05:

What I found interesting about Field of Dreams as far as like considering it as like a baseball movie as compared to like other, like even Bull Durham, it's still a little bit about winning and losing. It's about the actual season they go through. And Field of Dreams is more about the impact that the sport of baseball and the people that played it decades and decades ago, what that has meant just for kids growing up, for kids and their dads having a catch. So it somehow transcends it just being about who won or who lost. It doesn't even matter. It's just about the fun the enjoyment of like playing this game and what that meant for all of them

SPEAKER_04:

well speaking of men who played the game decades ago as you just said one thing that i really wanted because this on the last viewing of this for the show something i hadn't really thought about before um so dan daniel you've kind of touched upon it in a or Archie becoming Doc as he walks off the field. And then again, the first time that Ray sees Shoeless Joe. So the whole ghost story component of the film, I'm really curious your thoughts on like how it aligns with other kind of ghost stories you've seen before. This was

SPEAKER_05:

nothing like Poltergeist.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a little bit like Poltergeist. It is a little bit because at the beginning, it's a little bit of a horror movie where it's like, wait, what's going on here? And is it going to be bad? Is it going to be bad? And it's

SPEAKER_04:

very specific to the location. At

SPEAKER_05:

no point did that little girl slide across the

SPEAKER_04:

kitchen.

SPEAKER_02:

But she did slide across home plate.

SPEAKER_04:

So how did you feel? And now I know that like, you know, you didn't see this in the theater, but you did see it when you were a younger person. Was that something that was like a prominent element for you? I have a lot of questions around this aspect of the film and I'm just,

SPEAKER_02:

I have a lot of answers.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. You can start anywhere you want. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay. Well you, I, I, uh, you're a very perceptive interviewer, um, because you always ask these questions that I think are very, um, they really, they're intuitive. Um, and sometimes things I'm just going to love up on you for a So intuitive, other people will let them go unspoken. They won't even think about them because they kind of just accept them. But I very much appreciate that you always ask you, hang on, let's talk about this thing that I think we might all take for granted, which is ghosts. They're ghosts. You see the movie, they're ghosts. What does it mean to you? How do you relate to them? When I was a kid, I will answer your question. When I was a kid, it bothered me a lot, actually, because as a kid, I was a kid. I think you're trying to figure out the rules. You're trying to understand how the world works. And in a movie with ghosts, you want to know what the rules are of the ghosts. How can a ghost be hitchhiking on the side of the road? How can they pick up a ghost in their car? How can the ghost be tangible? And watching it as an adult, I was so pleased to see that the movie kind of tells you up front not to care. because the first thing that happens when Shoeless Joe shows up is Karen, the little girl, says, are you a ghost? And he says, well, what do you think? She said, you look pretty real to me. I said, well, I guess I'm real. That's all you need to know. That's all you need to know. And then all the other stuff that happens, including time travel.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. I was going to bring that up too. Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

It kind of, that bothered me as a kid. It bothered me a lot as a kid because I was like, well, wait a second. Is he talking to ghosts or is he traveling in time? What's happening here? This time around, I didn't care at all because all of it is just... a metaphor for having a spiritual experience. And from the point of view of a narrative, a narrative must escalate as it goes along in order to continue to be interesting. First, the spirit world comes to him. Then he goes to the spirit world. And then there's a hitchhiking Archibald, you know, Doc, whatever it's like, Moonlight Graham. He's hitchhiking and like, whatever. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04:

I do love you saying that and it is something that I do also have to remind myself of because I think I do become a little too myopic in terms of what you just said earlier about like what's what are the rules around this stuff and

SPEAKER_05:

this is a story with ghosts not a ghost story yeah

SPEAKER_04:

and so I think

SPEAKER_05:

I think whether or not or to the like to what extent you need those rules depends on what's So that would be my way to explain it away if I were them. But Ray Liotta did a better job by just saying, I guess I'm real. He's so good. I'm going to get to him for sure.

SPEAKER_04:

I think for me, what I kind of for myself helped me just, okay, just like relax, chill, accept it for what it is, is just more so thinking of it as like kind of a magical realism type story where there's going to be different elements that come into play. It's not just one thing. Like you said, it's not. It's not a ghost story. It's a story with ghosts. It's a story with time travel. It's a story with all these different elements. I mean, it's so funny, Daniel, that you brought up Archie hitchhiking, because one of the things I said to Derek was, you know, why would he not? So if we're saying that it's like 1922, I think is when he passed away. As a ghost, wouldn't you be like, what kind of funky mode of transportation is this? Or, you know, you said, Derek, he would have seen a couple other cars on the road before

SPEAKER_05:

Ray even came along. That piece of shit VW van would have

SPEAKER_04:

looked like a spaceship to him. Yeah, exactly. So it is those little things are like, OK, you just got to like you have to just embrace it.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yeah, you have to. And in a way, the movie sort of doesn't just encourage it. It demands it. because if you start to pick at any part of it at all, then you're aligning yourself with those people who pull up at the side of the road to watch him when he's making the baseball field the first time, who are like, he's crazy, you know, you're a nut. And like, we don't want to be those people. The movie has told us that those people are bad, specifically in the truly great Amy Madigan scene where she goes off on everybody, you know, like... It's very clear that the movie is like you can be one of these assholes who asks questions or you can go with your gut and you can trust your dreams and maybe it's all going to work out in the end. What a great

SPEAKER_04:

comparison. Yeah. That's a really apt comparison of who you are if you become that person. I love that so much because Derek and I hated those people. We're like, don't they have jobs? Don't they got stuff to do?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Why are they just hanging out and watching him? Why are they

SPEAKER_05:

wasting their time?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, another part of the ghost element that I was really curious, your thoughts, Daniel. So I thought it was really interesting that at least the baseball players were so aware. They were so like they knew they were dead. They knew when they died. They knew what year it currently was. They

SPEAKER_05:

knew when the last time was they had a cigarette.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Absolutely. I'm trying to think and I mean of course I don't have exhaustive knowledge of all ghost stories in cinema but like I was trying to think gosh when have I ever seen such like lucid ghosts before because actually we had just watched a friend's film the night prior where in this film there was a ghost component where she didn't realize that she was a ghost for most of the story and so that's often what I see or variants of that So what did you think about the fact that they knew exactly what their presence was in this world?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, I think it's very pleasing, you know, because when the first time Shoeless Joe shows up, you, the audience, are trying to figure out like, well, what's going on? Does he know he's dead? Does he know where he is? Does he know all this stuff? And the way Ray Liotta plays it kind of like keys you into the fact that, yeah, He does get it. And he doesn't necessarily want to really dwell on it or talk about it or get into it. So, okay. And then as it progresses and like Steve Easton or whoever it is who hasn't had the cigarette in 18 years.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Again, you gradually become aware. Oh, like, yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And it just, I don't know. It's just really enjoyable, especially because because then you start to get those jokes. If the ghosts know that they're dead, then they can joke about the fact that none of them want to invite Ty Cobb because none of them could stand him when he was alive. It's great. I love that line so much. The

SPEAKER_05:

laugh. The funny thing is that apparently real life Shoeless Joe Jackson was good friends with Ty Cobb. That's funny too. That's funny too.

SPEAKER_04:

This is me leaning into being that person And I acknowledge that fully. The only thing that I'm curious about, and I think I probably already know the answer, but what, so the fact that Archie doesn't seem to be aware that he is a ghost.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Does that matter to you?

SPEAKER_02:

It's confusing. It's confusing. There's a couple things that are confusing. It's confusing, for instance, does his dad know that he's his dad? right and then right and he goes dad you want to play and he turns around so it's like oh yeah maybe he does know but he doesn't seem to know in the beginning so right yeah there's stuff that there is stuff that bumps but not not enough not enough to stop it from being a great film

SPEAKER_04:

that's fair no that's really fair

SPEAKER_05:

i feel like it's possible that that they all knew like archie knew that he was like ghost of moonlight graham young young moonlight graham archie ghost guy getting in the van and he probably figured that they knew who he was. Like, I don't know. He had like a 10 hour nap in the, in the van.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, after he gets the run in, he gives a nod to Ray. And I felt that to me, that was the acknowledgement.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. I feel like there was something there, but there wasn't necessarily a need to like talk through it. Sure. Until like you, you get at the end and like, yes, they had to, there had to be that acknowledgement. Like, Hey dad, want to have a catch? But, um, Because I think for Archie, there's this tragedy about him having to leave the field to save Ray's daughter. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02:

No, it would be a tragedy if he had never become a doctor.

SPEAKER_05:

Right. So he got to live both of his dreams in that single moment. He was able to achieve what he had never been able to on the baseball field, then also achieve what he had been able to achieve throughout the rest of his life in saving kids and saving people. and

SPEAKER_04:

if I may just because we're on the topic and not to take away at all from Frank Whaley I think he does a really great job but oh so I'm making it really obvious my thoughts on the whole thing but Burt Lancaster yeah what do you think Daniel how did you feel about him being cast in this role um

SPEAKER_02:

I love Burt Lancaster one of my all time favorite movies and if you haven't seen it please see it is The Swimmer Have you seen that one?

SPEAKER_05:

No, I haven't either. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

SPEAKER_02:

Writing it down right

SPEAKER_05:

now.

SPEAKER_02:

It starts with Burt Lancaster wearing only swim trunks coming out of the forest. He emerges into the backyard of some friends of his who live on the outskirts of the neighborhood. And he wants to know if he can use their pool. They say, sure, of course. He says, sure. He swims, he gets out, he stands on the hill, and he looks down at the rest of the neighborhood. And he realizes that each house that has a swimming pool, pool by pool, they form a river. I'm going to swim home.

SPEAKER_04:

time-wise from some of these older performers who are no longer with us, I think it does become harder to kind of keep them in mindsets of people of just how great these people were. But I do think that in particular, Lancaster doesn't get acknowledgement for what a great actor he was. So that I'm really glad to hear that. I mean, when Derek and I were watching feel the dreams for the podcast I just was thinking and I mean I mentioned it to you like the scene where to me that's one of the moments where I totally tear up where Doc comes back on the field and all the players are kind of like saying you did great and congratulations and the whole and I'm thinking to myself oh my gosh like not to be belittle any of those other actors but to be just like kind of a random actor like one of the like lesser known baseball players and you get to share a scene with Burt Lancaster I was just like how incredible must that have been like yeah yeah so I I just legend really enjoyed his performance and his smile and his wink like he he's just so so joyful and

SPEAKER_02:

he has to get home because Alicia will think he has a girlfriend

SPEAKER_04:

yeah he's just he just makes me smile when he's on screen

SPEAKER_05:

I loved him in the movie and I also loved the character like the person that he was playing in it Apparently the people that were being interviewed when Terrence Mann was like talking to people in the bar, those were people who were answering like questions about the real life. Graham.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, Oh, that's cool. So

SPEAKER_05:

they were talking about the guy they knew that he, you know, the birth was

SPEAKER_04:

playing. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_02:

The blue hats story. Like there's so many, that movie. I was pretty much. Yeah, it's messed. They found all the hats that he never had time to give her. And that's something about Doc Graham I bet you didn't know. You know? Oh, man. Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

And if I may, and we will definitely dive into his performance as well, but just the response of James Earl Jones, like that smile and that appreciation. No, I didn't. Yeah, that he's been told something like that. God, is he great in this film too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I have a James Earl Jones story. But you were going to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_04:

No, no, no. Oh, tell the story for sure.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm going to keep it super short. Back in the year 2000, when I was young, it was one of my first editing gigs. I somehow was entrusted with editing a radio spot for Verizon. And at the time, Mr. James Earl Jones was the spokesperson.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So I had like five takes of James Earl Jones. They just left the mic running and they left the tape rolling. So I'm just sitting there. They hand them to me and I'm sitting there listening to 21 years, 22 years old, listening to these five takes of James Earl Jones and take one, you know, he says, Oh, Verizon, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. How is that fellas? You know, is there anything else you need? Oh, that was great. Mr. James Earl Jones was the, let's try another one.

UNKNOWN:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Take two, same thing. He's reading, just a naturally warm guy. His voice sounds good. Everybody's having a good time in the recording studio. Take three, halfway through the take, he just lets out an inadvertent, the loudest burp, like ever, just directly into the microphone. Like in the middle of a sentence, it just sneaks up on him and he just burps as loud as you could ever burp. And And his reaction to it, some actors, some that I've worked with, would have been very embarrassed or whatever. He just burst out laughing. He thought it was the funniest. Oh, excuse me.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, oh, oh, oh,

SPEAKER_02:

oh. And I was like, oh, my God. You know, I love this guy. And I told that story to Sarah last night when we were watching the movie because in that initial period where Ray goes to Terrence Mann and Terrence Mann is being very intense Yeah. The first time you see him smile is at the, at the ball game. What do you want? I want people to leave me alone. No, I meant, what do you, what do you, Oh, I'll have a dog and a beer. And that's the first time you see him smile. And she commented like, there it is. You see the warmth of James Earl Jones poking through. And I was like, well, let me tell you about the warmth of James Earl Jones. It's, it's, that's just, that's just, I've, I heard it. You know, he was there, he was recording, he was doing his job. He said, And his reaction to it was to just bust out laughing. That's a naturally warm person. And I think that that warmth comes through beautifully in the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

I fully agree. And I love that story. And yeah, we can, I mean, there's no reason to put off talking about his performance in this film. I mean, it's... Trying to think. I mean, I don't have a recollection of like clear memories of the first time I saw this movie. But I imagine that it probably was the first thing that I knew of him besides Star Wars is my guess. Conan?

SPEAKER_05:

Not

SPEAKER_04:

Conan. Conan. No, it definitely wouldn't have been Conan. And I don't think it would have been Coming to America either. I don't think I probably saw that till later. Okay. Could it

SPEAKER_02:

have been Sneakers?

SPEAKER_04:

Oh. Very doubtful. Very doubtful.

SPEAKER_02:

Sneakers directed by the same director. Oh. I just put together for the first time right now that like that's why James Earl Jones is in Sneakers because they work together on Field of Dreams.

SPEAKER_04:

That's a great catch. Yeah. That's a great connection there. But definitely I think that for sure I saw Sneakers much, much later. But yeah. and it was a different it definitely gave me a different because like I had known him maybe in some ways like the way that he was portrayed at the outset of the film I mean you kind of know that it's like that's not really him like I think you know as aggressive as he's being first of all it's totally justified because Ray is being a total weirdo and a creeper and you know like I mean you can't really blame him for the response he had

SPEAKER_05:

can you imagine if he had like a Ray doorbell

SPEAKER_04:

right well that's the other thing I mean that's that's that is something that definitely crossed my mind watching it and it does every time where it's like what you see in these films first of all things happen in films that obviously like people are constantly going to people's houses and just calling or texting like it's like why would you well why would you drive over to their house don't do

SPEAKER_05:

that don't do that

SPEAKER_04:

man but also it is just a very different time I mean you know nowadays if somebody were to knock on the door you just like freeze and pretend like you weren't home like that Yeah, I'm probably not answer the door. Whereas in I mean, even at the talent of the decade, because this is 89. Yeah, you would have just answered your door. Yeah. that Rey came into his life, the way that he, even if he seems kind of... aggressive and reluctant and all those things at first he really leans into what this is all about pretty quickly

SPEAKER_02:

yeah yeah he does

SPEAKER_04:

and i love that i love that openness to this kind of bizarre situation he's been put in

SPEAKER_05:

getting into the game was tough but then once he had once they had that shared experience

SPEAKER_04:

yes yes then

SPEAKER_05:

i think he

SPEAKER_04:

and then he was like i'm coming with you like he he immediate like I thought I was joking with Derek that like you know he gets in the van he's like we're going to Minnesota I'm like he's not even getting a toothbrush to bring like he's just like we're going now no time no

SPEAKER_03:

time so

SPEAKER_04:

I'm just curious Daniel like how also because the other component that I was really kind of observing and watching the film was just the growing friendship between Ray and Terrence and just what your thoughts were on the dynamic between the two of them

SPEAKER_02:

well I always even when I was back in my youth rewinding and watching it obsessively over and over again it always bothered me and it still bothers me to this day how much they don't get along in the beginning and it like it's upsetting you know you certainly don't want to be making James Earl Jones mad you just don't and there's plenty of times where it seems like it's really not going to work out between these two. And I think that that makes it more rewarding when they are friends later. And also, you know, again, you get to see the natural warmth of James Earl Jones come out. And I think aside from the time when he cuts off Kevin Costner's hand with a lightsaber, they seem to get along pretty well. I

SPEAKER_05:

agree. Yeah. I think that the three, the three best moments in the movie for me with, with Terrence's character are when he real, he says like, Oh, you're from the sixties. Yes. When, when he asks him like what changed, like what, why he like became, I guess, rebellious or why he started feeling a different way. And he said it was because of his book and his reaction to that. And then the last is when he said, Ray, I am your

SPEAKER_02:

father. I am your father. And, I will play catch with you.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, those three moments really stand out to me in this movie.

SPEAKER_04:

Man, you guys really went with that.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a terribly moving moment when they play catch over the Bespin trash compactor or whatever it is. Yeah,

SPEAKER_05:

I agree. I agree. It sticks with you.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, you guys. Okay. But it is especially I just really love You know, at the end where Joe invites Terrence to come with them and just the way that Terrence navigates Ray's frustration and annoyance. I love that. That to me, like it felt like such an intimate moment between the two of them for not having known each other that long at all. And I, when a film can do that successfully, there's something so enchanting about that. Just like seeing that they understand each other on this level. that runs so deep, regardless of the amount of time. And I don't know, something about that was very touching to me, the way that Terrence is trying to calm him down, telling him, like, you have a family that you need to look after. Yeah. I don't know. I just love that. I just thought it was really well done. And certainly that's a function of the quality of the actors, you know, and what they were given to work with.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. They definitely, there isn't a lot of screen time where you see them becoming friends. They kind of, you know, there's the scene in the hotel room is kind of the, that liminal space between not being friends and being friends where it's like, Oh, you got to call your dad. I'll, you know what? I'll give you your space. I'm going to go for a walk. And then when he comes back from the, this is something that's always, I've always found interesting. James Earl Jones only has the one spiritual experience at the baseball game and then he has to take Ray's word for it when Ray comes back from going on his walk that Ray traveled in time you know and he seems to accept it no

SPEAKER_05:

question when you say it like that yeah

SPEAKER_02:

so yeah I think you're right I think James Earl Jones just does a heroic job of of making that friendship feel lived in even though there's not a whole lot to support it They

SPEAKER_05:

get to spend several hours on the road, just some sweet road montages.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, no, that's a good point that you make though, Daniel, in terms of like, it has been established because of what you're saying, Derek, in terms of like, we know that they've been on the road, just the two of them, well, a little bit of time with Archie. Some kids sleeping in the van. Yeah, but mostly them for at least several days. Yeah. But we're not shown that. Yeah, I just really love that friendship. And now kind of like- that

SPEAKER_05:

would have been a show I would watch. I don't want to watch the field of sadness, but I would watch a show just about Ray and Terrence on the road.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I would. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

They've been, they've been threatening to remake it as a series.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah. Gosh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

Can't possibly be the same people. No. I mean, I... With Daniel Radcliffe as Sheila's George Jackson. Sure, sure, yeah. And I love Daniel Radcliffe, but, like, I don't know. I just, this definitely falls into, like, what we've talked about.

SPEAKER_05:

And Zendaya as Mrs. Kinsella.

SPEAKER_04:

Right, like, what we've talked about ad nauseum. And just, like, reworking these really close to perfect... Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know how you make a better version of Field of Dreams because one of the things, I like movies. I also like picking apart movies, understanding how they work, why they work, and what doesn't work. And Field of Dreams, as far as I can tell, is pretty darn perfect. It's pretty darn perfect. You've got these one or two little minor speed bumps that we've talked about of like, well, do the person or do they not? I don't know. Maybe. Whatever. It doesn't matter. The movie is pretty perfect.

SPEAKER_04:

I agree. No, totally agree with you. And that's why it's like, I get it. I understand that they think there's going to be inherent interest because it did so well, because it is such a great movie. But it's like, leave it alone. I

SPEAKER_05:

can only think of one other movie that needed to be remade less. Poltergeist.

SPEAKER_02:

Witches. That's it.

SPEAKER_05:

And it was, and

SPEAKER_04:

it didn't need to be. And it didn't need to be, and we won't watch it. Well, okay. So you brought her up several minutes ago. Amy Madigan. Yes. and fully agree with your assessment of her performance. She was phenomenal. And I'm very curious your thoughts on the relationship between her and Ray, the way that she navigates these things that come up for him and wanting to be supportive and wanting to be open-minded, maybe being a little bit more of the pragmatic one. in the relationship? And just as a married person, do you feel like... Are you going to make a baseball field? And this is no bearing on your wife because I don't know what the right or wrong answer is when your partner comes up to you and says, I want to build a baseball field in the middle of our cornfield that we desperately need for money. So all to say, how did you feel about the dynamic? between the two of them, Daniel?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, one of the things that I was thinking while watching the movie and that Sarah vocalized was that like Poltergeist, we've picked movies for this podcast where at the core is a loving relationship between a married couple of the kind that seems incredibly rare if you think about it. If you're like, well, wait a sec, how many other movies... have this doesn't seem like a lot which is sort of troubling but um i really like that said i really like it um i think it's perfectly done you see that she supports him you also see that she's stressed about it because she understands what it means Um, which I think is exactly the right way to play it. And in fact, act two in the five act structure of field of dreams, I think is the one that's specifically about their marriage. So act one is like, he hears the, if you build it, he will come, he builds it. You know, she kind of gives him the go ahead pretty much right away. If you, if this is something you feel like you should do, you should do it. And then once it's built and time has passed and nothing has happened yet. Oh, and then she was, Joe shows up that the end of act one um but enough time has passed that we now understand um that they've that that time could have been more productive from a from a farming standpoint if they'd had more crops and then act two which is everything after shoeless joe shows up to the moment where she's like, I'm going to help you pack your bag so you can go visit Terrence Mann. Everything in that act is, is really about their marriage. Like they go to the PTA meeting together and, you know, he's telling her, well, now the voice is saying something different. And she's like, okay, well, you know, here are the, here are the realities of the situation. And you see, you just see the two of them as a couple really working together. And, and like you said, Anna, navigating trying to navigate this scenario and I think the movie does a really exceptional job of getting tension out of the situation without ever compromising either of their characters by making by making their relationship a shitty one like right up until the end she's she's just trying to make it work and then No, that's really well said. And...

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think if I– the only thing that I would bring up is like first of all, I'm very, very happy because she's such a phenomenal actress that they gave her that moment at the– I don't know. I don't think it was a PTA meeting. It was. Write about the books. It was like a PTA meeting? I think so.

SPEAKER_02:

Wasn't it? That's what they call it in the movie.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay. Fair enough. Because it just felt like a– it felt like just a neighborhood gathering. I don't know. So I'm really glad that they gave her that because that shows so much of who she is and that like– that fierceness and that strength that she has to like truly stand up against everybody else. I wish, and now I get it because it's justified because of the revelation that he has during the meeting. I wish he would have given her a little bit of acknowledgement. I'm like, you did great. Like that was amazing. Totally just did.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. He's a little too

SPEAKER_04:

wrapped up in his own thing.

SPEAKER_02:

You're right. He is. I, I did clock that as well in the, in the latest screening. I was like, well, you know, buddy, now would be a good time to kind of, acknowledged that she

SPEAKER_05:

like

SPEAKER_02:

it's not all about you Kevin Costner it's not all about you

SPEAKER_05:

instead he did kind of the opposite which is like we gotta go right right

SPEAKER_04:

so that was the only thing where I was like come on man like she's she's been such a like trooper and supportive of you give her this this moment so

SPEAKER_02:

yeah but I I

SPEAKER_04:

understand in the world of the film why he didn't

SPEAKER_05:

it was really odd how how timely that scene was from 1989 in 2023 yes yeah yes

SPEAKER_03:

it

SPEAKER_05:

was

SPEAKER_04:

yep but yeah I love her and I I think that they for her for her really not having a ton of screen time especially the like the the middle portion of the film she's such a dynamic character I feel like I I know who she is you know and

SPEAKER_05:

you can thank that intro prologue

SPEAKER_04:

that too yes that too and actually that's really interesting because um I think one thing that I'm just thinking about it now is the fact that like you know so Ray his mom passed when he was I think he said three yeah the obvious estrangement um between him and his father but then she also has parents that just don't get her

SPEAKER_05:

they don't get

SPEAKER_04:

it they're miserable yeah I mean we I think we just see the mom

SPEAKER_05:

yeah

SPEAKER_04:

um

SPEAKER_05:

I don't think It's very nice to make people feel stupid.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Is that how she said that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I think

SPEAKER_04:

it was a very deep register on the mom.

SPEAKER_05:

I thought it was shockingly. So when she finally spoke, I'm like, Whoa.

SPEAKER_04:

So also say that I thought that that was like an interesting kind of like, um, parallelism between the two of them is that they both come from families where they just think very differently than, than their parents.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, I think it's part of the larger theme that the thing that struck me on this rewatch where I was like, Oh, like, When I was a kid, I thought that this was a movie about baseball and also a movie about connecting with your dad. But now, as an adult, one of the other ways that you could view this movie is it's a midlife crisis movie. He's at a point in his life where he isn't sure whether he should follow his dreams or just take the path that his dad took, which is just buckle down and work. And He and Amy Madigan and Kevin Costner are both dreamers. And then their dreaming is tested. And it's sort of tested right from the beginning where, is this a good idea? Let's find out. And then throughout the movie, while all these adventures are happening, you're getting all these additional like, oh, you're going to lose the farm. You're going to lose the farm. If you don't have the money tomorrow, you are literally going to lose the farm. And that's the price of listening to your dreams. And the movie does that. that's this kind of incredible... it's not just that it comes down on the side of like, yay, the dreams win at the end. The cars, they're going to make enough money. And like as a kid, I literally– I counted the number of cars. I tried to calculate if they're charging$20 a head, are they going to have enough? Eventually the answer is yes. Like I did the math.

SPEAKER_04:

Which is funny

SPEAKER_02:

because like– But the other thing– Yeah. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04:

No, I was just going to say it's funny because like the baseball players are done for the night So all these cars are showing up with like, there's no, there's no game happening.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think the implication is that they're not going to see, no one's going to be able to see the ghosts anyway. This is how I thought rationalized it as a kid. Cause it's part of his speech. Um, they're just going to feel, I think the, um, the, the, the memories will be so thick. They'll have to brush them out of their faces. They'll hand over the money without even thinking. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Anyway, so the other really amazing thing that the movie does is it also acknowledges that like but wait a second dreams yeah they're cool don't get me wrong but also what if Archie Graham hadn't become a doctor you know there are times there's a time and a place for everything and sometimes you you know maybe go a little bit easy on your dad for not being a major league baseball player like that seems to be I It's hard for me to really unwrap exactly why Kevin Costner was so mad at his dad. I think it might just be a generational thing. But one of the things that he says is like, I never forgave him for getting so old, which I interpreted as he gave up on his dreams. But like then the movie through this character of Doc Moonlight Graham, who is a very paternal figure, you know, someone who's like probably a grandpa or whatever, and someone who can speak with authority. about having gone the distance no pun intended this guy kind of educates Kevin Costner on behalf of the dad giving up on his dreams and saying no you know like there's more to it than that and so the movie really does this beautiful thing where it manages to have it both ways sometimes you do have to follow your dreams and they seem crazy and you might lose the farm but other times you know if you take the different path other good things happen you save the kid from choking on the hot dog. So like, hey man, it's all good. And yeah. And then I was like, oh, that's why it's called Field of Dreams because it's about dreams. If you were to reduce this movie to one word, that movie would either be dad or baseball or dreams. But I think dreams.

SPEAKER_04:

No, and one thing that I must say is kind of, Derek and I remarked on this, kind of hilarious that he's having this like midlife crisis at 36, but a little premature. Having a one third life crisis. But you know what, and you bring up a good point because, you know, within all of that, I'm really curious, you know, because he goes through that process. prologue and talks about, you know, meeting his wife and eventually they buy this farm. I feel like, you know, he makes it really clear that his dad put on him these dreams that his dad himself wasn't able to realize. And that is in part why he became belligerent because he felt like that wasn't what he wanted for himself. But I never got a clear idea of like, you know, he said, did he say he majored in English? Is that what he said he majored in

SPEAKER_05:

yeah i don't know what his like actual baseball youth experience was like if he

SPEAKER_04:

well between like you know so he makes it clear that that's not the route he wanted to take supposedly but then i never got a sense like maybe it is kind of that 60s thing and go with the flow but like they seem to kind of just arbitrarily buy a farm

SPEAKER_05:

yeah

SPEAKER_04:

and you know and i mean which is hilarious to me because like farmers work fucking hard so to You don't just be like, yeah, I'm going to buy a farm. I mean, it takes a fucking shit ton of work to make a farm work. So I just thought that was really interesting because it's like, I guess until this point in his life that we get to experience, I'm not sure what his passion was, what his goal was. So it's funny to me in a way that he's so angry at his dad for, I agree with you, Dan, at least his

SPEAKER_05:

dad had a dream

SPEAKER_04:

yeah like I'm like what was your dream like what was your dream up until this moment like what was it that you wanted for yourself because it's a little hypocritical to be so judgmental of your father when yeah I'm not really seeing that in him either and that's okay that's okay a lot of people are that way so it's not it's not a judgment on him I kind of feel like you

SPEAKER_05:

wanted this movie to end with him saying hey dad want to catch in the dead saying no fuck you

SPEAKER_02:

you know what kid you were wrong

SPEAKER_04:

sorry for the tangent it's just something but I'm actually really glad Derek that you brought up that scene because of course we need before this phenomenal conversation wraps up we need to talk about the end and just of course I'm so so curious Daniel like how you felt I know you said that you were like a little bit shedding tears throughout the course of the film

SPEAKER_02:

so how Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So how did this hit for you? And does it hit differently when you watch it at different times?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Yes. As a kid, it was pretty– like, okay. He plays catch with– he and his dad weren't getting along. This thing happened. They got to play catch. Cool. Now as an adult, I see it as– it's about the circle of life. Um, and it all kind of ties together, like all of it, like even going back to James Earl Jones being like, no, you can't come into the cornfield because you have a family. Like you have responsibilities in the same way that Kevin Costner's dad had responsibilities. He had to raise Kevin Costner without a mom. And, um, and he had to defer his dreams to, Well, I was almost going to say he had to defer his dreams to raise Kevin Costner, but that's not actually true. He played in the minors, he left, and then it was like 20 years later that they had the kid. So that's neither here nor there. But what is here or there is that the son was angry at the father for giving up on his dreams. And the son creates this situation where where the father gets to live out his dream in the end. He gets to play baseball again. And so there's this idea if you, I hope I'm, I hope I'm articulating it well enough that I think that there's this idea that can be tracked throughout the movie that dreams get passed along sometimes. And sometimes we fulfilled the dreams of those who came before us. And probably those who come after us will help fulfill the dreams that we have, because that's part of the circle of life.

SPEAKER_05:

You know, what you said about him, um, Kevin Costner's character creating this situation where his dad is now able to like play through like his dream, you know, play. I'm not sure if that's, if that's, if I heard you correctly, but if so, I hadn't, I hadn't thought about that because I'd been so focused on like Ray's character that it was more about like what he was feeling. I guess what the dad was feeling in that moment that they have together, but I hadn't really thought about it. And the dad brings up like, is, you know, when he asks, is there, is there heaven? yeah it's a place where like your dreams come true I hadn't thought about like well maybe this entire process wasn't just for for a raised character but it really was for both of them it really it really did do something for both of them um in that moment and and far beyond it

SPEAKER_02:

yeah it's a hell of a movie

SPEAKER_05:

it was I'll say this much too um I again I I saw it in a theater with my dad my dad had a challenging relationship with his dad. And that moment at the end is one of like very few moments where I can recall my dad actually like crying over something. Certainly he's never cried over anything in a movie before. And my reaction was probably more similar to yours, Daniel, which is like, cool. He's having a catch with his dad. I didn't get it at all. And watching it now and knowing that I have the relationship with my dad that he never had with his, it's, definitely hits a lot different

SPEAKER_04:

I think that like it can it can really be impactful to almost anyone regardless of like because it's impactful if you you know we're we're fortunate to have like a positive relationship with your father father figure in your life um it can also be impactful if that wasn't the case for you it can be like I mean

SPEAKER_05:

if you are a human being

SPEAKER_04:

yes yes exactly exactly like as Somebody who lost her father far too soon, that hits for me to even entertain the idea of having a chance to spend a little bit of time with my dad again. We

SPEAKER_05:

should have made this for Father's Day.

SPEAKER_04:

It's okay. That's okay. To underscore both of your points and what you said Like when I was younger, it just didn't necessarily, I thought it was sweet. I thought it was like a nice way to wrap up the film.

SPEAKER_05:

It does not have the same weight

SPEAKER_04:

to it. Right. But of course, as an adult, and as you just go through life experiences, and I think what you said, Daniel is beautiful. And I, I do think that you, you stated it very eloquently in terms of like, I think that's a really interesting thing to kind of just ponder on is like, like dreams belonging to you, the way that your dreams can be realized. Mm-hmm. and yeah I think this film does a really beautiful job and one thing that you just made me think of Daniel when you were speaking of all that is just even as Joe is walking away and Ray realizes that his dad is there but he looks back at Joe and he says it was you and he goes no it was you and I think it could be both like it because again I think that falls in line with what you were saying so yeah, it's, it's a wonderful movie. And, and it is so, so wonderful. It's so brings me. And I, if I can speak for Derek's brings Derek so much joy to get to talk about a film like this with someone that, you know, means so much to us and someone who has the same kind of appreciation and, and does speak so beautifully and so eloquently about films and the meanings and, and what we all get out of it. So just, Thank you again for really just such a beautiful conversation, such a delightful conversation about this. We're so lucky to have been able to get you back on the show, Daniel.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, I am the lucky one. Thank you. And I thought that everything that you said was perfect.

SPEAKER_04:

Aw. Well, when I first introduced you, you know, you are a phenomenal creative. You direct and edit and write and It makes me so happy that you get acknowledgement for how beautifully you do all these things. And so I was wondering if you just wanted to share with our listeners, you know, it could be anything you want, maybe where they can find you, what you have going on, whatever you would like.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh,

SPEAKER_04:

nah. Well then, I'm going to reiterate because I know that this is going to drop kind of at the high tide of summer, but of course, I love spooky season and I just think that obviously, of course, everybody should go and check out the 101 Scariest Horror Movie Moments of All Time. Subscribe

SPEAKER_05:

to Shut her now.

SPEAKER_04:

Like, seriously, do it. I mean, we start spooky season pretty early in this house. Yeah. So by the time this goes to air, it won't be that far off, in my estimation. Start basically August. Yeah. Yeah. Late August. Nice. So definitely go do that. And, you know, I see through, you know, probably I think not often enough, but you do occasionally post about some of the fun things that are going on with your writing. And I'm so happy for and proud of you for all that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you. Yeah. I forgot that that's going on. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to bore anybody who would still be listening to me drone on at this point. But man, I'm on draft three right now of my latest script. And it is just tough.

SPEAKER_04:

It is tough. But it's worth it because you are so good at it and it deserves to be produced and made and seen and enjoyed by audiences and I that is my hope with all of your projects because they are that good oh

SPEAKER_02:

likewise I feel the same

SPEAKER_04:

thanks friend well thank you again for being on the show we loved having you on always an open door open invitation to come back and yeah just thank you for a beautiful time together oh

SPEAKER_02:

well thank you you guys and uh i believe i'll be seeing you soon

SPEAKER_04:

you will you will we love you daniel

SPEAKER_05:

we do i want to say yeah yeah he was amazing that was amazing yeah thank you

SPEAKER_04:

derek i mean this is ridiculous are you really gonna ask yeah we just had this on but i got to

SPEAKER_05:

okay fair

SPEAKER_04:

enough i gots to would you watch this film again

SPEAKER_05:

we've already watched it again yeah yes yeah so and i will watch it again even more

SPEAKER_04:

This is on rotation in a lot of ways. It's sometimes our go-to-bed movie. It's a

SPEAKER_05:

feel-good, comfort, food kind of movie.

SPEAKER_04:

And it's actually not infrequently on TV.

SPEAKER_05:

It's on quite a bit, yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah, there have been plenty of times where we're like, oh, it's on TV, and then we just keep it on TV.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that's why when we watched it for this recording, it was the first time in a really long time that I'd seen the beginning.

SPEAKER_04:

Correct.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, and we did bring that up. as well with daniel okay call to action gosh that you know what i think that um i might play off of something that came up briefly during our conversation which is like would you buy into like if you came to me i mean we don't own a farm we don't have farmland got

SPEAKER_05:

nothing

SPEAKER_04:

but like if your spouse came to you and was like hey i'd like to do this thing that is almost certainly going to impact us negatively negatively financially but I there's this voice there's this voice that I'm hearing I'm sorry you're hearing voices and I need to one voice okay there's this voice that I'm hearing and I need to do it I mean how would you respond to that I don't think you're not being a good spouse to be like um especially if you have a kid

SPEAKER_05:

yeah no that's a good one that's that's I mean in this movie it was I feel like they talk about it a little bit at the beginning, how Annie was the one who kind of had the history of doing these crazy things, or not necessarily impulsive things, but they got the farm because she had this idea. So it's just all turning it on its head.

SPEAKER_04:

That's true.

SPEAKER_05:

By having Ray be the one who has this crazy thing that he wants to do.

SPEAKER_04:

That's a good point. So I don't

SPEAKER_05:

know how much that would factor

SPEAKER_04:

in. felt like well I gotta support you because I've been the one who's done the crazy stuff in the past but yeah I mean this isn't like you know if your spouse came to you and was like you know what like we we know people who have done this where it's like oh I want to make a career change like that's totally different where you're like I want to go back to school where there's a financial price tag to that but yeah I'm just curious how people if they were put in nanny shoes how would they respond

SPEAKER_05:

that's a good one okay that's a really good

SPEAKER_04:

one okay well thank you

SPEAKER_05:

yeah

SPEAKER_04:

and if you want to get in touch with us we'd love to hear from you you can reach out through facebook instagram or twitter and we'll we'll eventually figure out the threads thing

SPEAKER_05:

well look the thing with the front threads freds i almost called it freds

SPEAKER_04:

exercise franchise

SPEAKER_05:

it's going really well it's going really well um like everyone signed on for it and then a week later engagement dropped oh really a lot

SPEAKER_04:

oh so it'll get back up there it'll I have confidence.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Social media. People want to use it. Okay. Reach out. Same handle for all three. It is at 80smontagepod and 80s is 80s. It's coming up next. What should I do for a sneak peek?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm three months older than you. Interesting. That sounds like something. I'm not, but three months older than you. It sounds like something somebody would say in a movie with tom hanks if that movie were titled big

SPEAKER_04:

well done i know you knew it well done well it

SPEAKER_05:

was a great clue

SPEAKER_04:

thank you and yeah i mean this has been on tap for a while so we're so excited that we finally get to cover this one and it's been a little bit of a theme over this season we've had some really wonderful returning guests and this upcoming episode will be no exception it's been a while since he's been on the show so we're super stoked to have him back and in the meantime just thank you to everyone for hanging with us of course you have a lot of choices out there so we really appreciate that you a

SPEAKER_05:

lot of them are awful some of them are okay some

SPEAKER_04:

of them are really good so that's why it's special if they want to listen to ours yeah that's fair that's fair so thank you so much and we will talk to you again in two weeks time

UNKNOWN:

you